The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Screwed

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Big RR
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Big RR »

I don't believe that McCain voted today because Trump told him to. I think he actually wants to move forward. To me, he doesn't even appear to be a fan of Trump.
I still maintain that, if he really wanted to promote bipartisanship, he would have voted against bringing the bill forward to force a new bipartisan bill to be hammered out; face it, this is not going to produce that. Actions matter far more than rhetoric.

As for his being a "fan" of Trump--one need not be a fan of the person one takes orders from, and that's what I think McCain did here. There is no other reason for his return to the senate and vote IMHO.

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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Charlie Pierce nails it (clearly he has been reading my posts here :mrgreen: ):

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/po ... re-speech/
WASHINGTON—It was an ugly day in the United States Senate on Tuesday, as ugly a day as has been seen in that chamber since the death of Strom Thurmond, who used to make a day ugly simply by showing up. The Senate took up the Motion To Proceed on whatever the hell hash Mitch McConnell wants to make out of the American healthcare system. (The decision now seems to be between whether we kick 30 million, 22 million, or 18 million of our fellow citizens to the curb.) There was a loud protest in the Senate gallery, and the Capitol police, who were everywhere, went out of their way to prevent any media coverage of the ensuing arrests. (In this, they were helped immeasurably by a bunch of little omadhauns from the office of the Senate sergeant-at-arms, one of whom was so insufferable that he was even money to get thrown out a window.) That was really ugly.

The vote was 51-50, with Vice President Mike Pence breaking the tie. Back when he was becoming the very unpopular governor of Indiana, Mike Pence grabbed the Affordable Care Act's Medicaid expansion with both hands. Now, he was the deciding vote in the first real test of whether the Republican congressional majorities will eviscerate Medicaid entirely. That was really ugly, too.

But the ugliest thing to witness on a very ugly day in the United States Senate was what John McCain did to what was left of his legacy as a national figure. He flew all the way across the country, leaving his high-end government healthcare behind in Arizona, in order to cast the deciding vote to allow debate on whatever ghastly critter emerges from what has been an utterly undemocratic process. He flew all the way across the country in order to facilitate the process of denying to millions of Americans the kind of medical treatment that is keeping him alive, and to do so at the behest of a president* who mocked McCain's undeniable military heroism.


For longtime McCain watchers, and I count myself as one of them, this is something of a pattern. In 2000, George W. Bush's campaign slandered him and his young daughter, and radical fundamentalist Christians joined in so eagerly that McCain delivered the best speech of his career, calling those people "agents of intolerance." By 2006, he was on Meet The Press, which ultimately always was the constituency he cared most about, saying that the late Jerry Falwell was no longer an agent of intolerance. He was hugging Bush, and he was speaking at Liberty University. All of this seems to support the theory that the best way to win over John McCain is to treat him as badly as possible.


So he got a standing ovation when he walked into the chamber, and that was all right, and then he cast the vote to proceed. And then, having done so, he climbed onto his high horse and delivered an address every word of which was belied by the simple "yes" he had traveled so far to cast.

Our deliberations today – not just our debates, but the exercise of all our responsibilities – authorizing government policies, appropriating the funds to implement them, exercising our advice and consent role – are often lively and interesting. They can be sincere and principled. But they are more partisan, more tribal more of the time than any other time I remember. Our deliberations can still be important and useful, but I think we'd all agree they haven't been overburdened by greatness lately. And right now they aren't producing much for the American people. "Both sides have let this happen. Let's leave the history of who shot first to the historians. I suspect they'll find we all conspired in our decline – either by deliberate actions or neglect. We've all played some role in it. Certainly I have. Sometimes, I've let my passion rule my reason. Sometimes, I made it harder to find common ground because of something harsh I said to a colleague. Sometimes, I wanted to win more for the sake of winning than to achieve a contested policy.

His "yes" won the day for a secret process that produced a bill that nobody's seen yet.

Let's trust each other. Let's return to regular order. We've been spinning our wheels on too many important issues because we keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. That's an approach that's been employed by both sides, mandating legislation from the top down, without any support from the other side, with all the parliamentary maneuvers that requires.

He could have struck a blow for these noble sentiments—and, most notably, for "regular order"—by voting no. It would have been the most resounding vote of his long career. But he said, "yes."

I voted for the motion to proceed to allow debate to continue and amendments to be offered. I will not vote for the bill as it is today. It's a shell of a bill right now. We all know that. I have changes urged by my state's governor that will have to be included to earn my support for final passage of any bill. I know many of you will have to see the bill changed substantially for you to support it. We've tried to do this by coming up with a proposal behind closed doors in consultation with the administration, then springing it on skeptical members, trying to convince them it's better than nothing, asking us to swallow our doubts and force it past a unified opposition. I don't think that is going to work in the end. And it probably shouldn't.


God, this is gorge-inducing. Alone, he could've stopped the process he so dislikes in its tracks. He could've done it in a way that echoed through the ages. But he said, "yes."

The Obama administration and congressional Democrats shouldn't have forced through Congress without any opposition support a social and economic change as massive as Obamacare. And we shouldn't do the same with ours.

Alas, this is an absolute lie, and an embarrassing one, and the Straight Talk Express is in the ditch. The Affordable Care Act was the product of endless hearings and at least 100 amendments proposed by Republicans. It was scored by the CBO. The Senate debated it for almost a month, and the senators knew what was in it. Right now, the bill that John McCain facilitated likely will be one that isn't scored by the CBO, and the Freedom Caucus crackpots in the House are trying to defund the CBO and hand the job of scoring legislation to the Heritage Foundation. I would bet a substantial number of buffalo nickels that John McCain votes for whatever bill finally comes before him, no matter how many people's lives that bill makes miserable.


I wanted this to be different. In 2000, I thought McCain might be the person to lead his party back to marginal sanity at least. But he wanted to be president, so he became like all the rest of them. Yes, he scolded that person who said Barack Obama was a Muslim, but he chose as his running mate a nutty person who still may believe he is. Yes, he put his name on a campaign finance reform bill, but he also voted for every member of the Supreme Court who subsequently eviscerated that law, and others like it, and he's been absent from that fight ever since. There have been very few senators as loyal to the party line as John McCain. He has been a great lost opportunity to the country. Now, he will end his career as the face of whatever wretchedness is brought on the country by whatever the bill finally is.

THERE HAVE BEEN VERY FEW SENATORS AS LOYAL TO THE PARTY LINE AS JOHN MCCAIN.
By the end of the afternoon, the Democrats had taken over one of the wide marble staircases outside the Capitol. They had walked across the piazza and onto the East Lawn of the Capitol to talk to some protesters, many of whom are struggling with diseases and disabilities that would be covered under the Affordable Care Act, and certainly under the Cadillac healthcare plan enjoyed by John McCain. It was a nice gesture, and they were warmly received, but there was something of the stunt to it.

The Republicans have the votes now. Dean Heller and Rob Portman and Shelley Moore Capito have lined up with their party once, and the likelihood is their respective prices will be met again because this is not a policy issue any more, it is pure politics now, a promise made by an extremist majority to its unthinking base. That's what the end of this ugly day looked like, a day on which the final bloody death of Barack Obama's legacy was placed on the fast track by people who know better, and on which Susan Collins of Maine was more of a maverick than John McCain ever was. It was an ugly day in the U.S. Senate, and there was nothing but ruin everywhere you looked.
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rubato
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by rubato »

McCain whored himself to get the GOPs support to run for president and has never even tried to be shriven for those sins. He will end up the sad shriveled little man his ambition made him into. He was a better man when he had the stones to condemn Bush's catastrophic economic program and he was morally just when he condemned torture. That man is gone.


yrs,
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Econoline »

  • Guinevere wrote:Charlie Pierce nails it (clearly he has been reading my posts here :mrgreen: )

Also too, in a later blog post (just this morning):
  • Because these elements of this jerry-rigged monstrosity had not been scored by the CBO, the measure needed 60 votes to pass, unless the Senate agreed to waive certain procedural requirements. The vote on the waiver failed, miserably, with nine Republicans joining a united Democratic minority to sink it, 57-43.

    (Those people clinging to the notion that John McCain nobly came back to vote to begin debate in order ultimately to vote against the final passage of whatever Mitch McConnell cobbles together now have to reckon with the fact that McCain voted in favor of a bill he had said he opposed six hours earlier. Was the senator confused? He could've consulted his BFF Lindsey Graham, who was one of the nine Republicans who voted against it.)
  • Yesterday Econoline wrote:Okay...I will give him the benefit of the doubt for just a little while longer.

:evil: Well, six hours was an even littler while than I was expecting, yesterday. I wanted to withhold judgement until I had more to go on and McCain delivered that really quickly. Enough's enough: I'm now joining BSG, Guin, Sue, Ray, and Roy on this.
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Big RR
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Big RR »

McCain voted in favor of a bill he had said he opposed six hours earlier
Why am I not surprised? :roll:

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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Yep, that was my comment from 9:28 last night. I guess it was too obscure.

In any event, he did join with 7 Republicans and voted against the straight out "repeal and wait 2 years" plan this afternoon. My guess is that when the "skinny repeal and wait" version is put up tomorrow, he can vote for *that* claiming its an improvement. My fear is that four of the 7 will also join him, leaving Collins and Murkowski (whom Trumpanzee tried to bully on Twitter last night) in the wilderness, and giving the Rs the 50 votes they need. I hope not.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Senate rejects ‘repeal only’ measure

The Senate on Wednesday rejected a measure that would have repealed major parts of the Affordable Care Act but would not have provided a replacement, signaling that the “clean repeal” bill that conservatives have embraced cannot get through Congress.
Continue reading the main story

The vote, 45-55, underscored the bind that Republican leaders have found themselves in. Seven Republicans voted against the measure — Senators Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, Susan Collins of Maine, Dean Heller of Nevada, John McCain of Arizona, Rob Portman of Ohio, Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — showing that repealing the health law without an immediate replacement lacks crucial support among Republicans.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/p ... -vote.html
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Sue U »

Neither Lisa Murkowski nor Susan Collins has anything to fear from either their constituents or the Republican Party leadership. If you don't recall, Murkowski won a write-in campaign for Senate after Tea Party nutcase and facial hair enthusiast Joe Miller took the GOP nom in a surprise upset back in 2010. And if the voter meetings over the July 4 recess are any indication, Mainers are plenty satisfied with Collins. With their slim majority in the Senate, the GOP needs them more than they need the party.
GAH!

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Trump administration threatens retribution against Alaska over Murkowski health votes

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump isn't going to just let go of Sen. Lisa Murkowski's no vote Tuesday against debating Obamacare repeal.

Early Wednesday, Trump took to Twitter to express displeasure with Murkowski's vote. By that afternoon, each of Alaska's two Republican senators had received a phone call from Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke letting them know the vote had put Alaska's future with the administration in jeopardy.

The response follows Trump's no-holds-barred style of governing, even when it comes to his own party. It is his first strike of retaliation against Murkowski, however, despite her tendency to stray from the party line and the president's priorities.

Alaska Sen. Dan Sullivan said the call from Zinke heralded a "troubling message."

"I'm not going to go into the details, but I fear that the strong economic growth, pro-energy, pro-mining, pro-jobs and personnel from Alaska who are part of those policies are going to stop," Sullivan said.

"I tried to push back on behalf of all Alaskans. … We're facing some difficult times and there's a lot of enthusiasm for the policies that Secretary Zinke and the president have been talking about with regard to our economy. But the message was pretty clear," Sullivan said. The Interior secretary also contacted Murkowski, he said.

Murkowski was not available for comment. Spokespeople from the White House and the Interior Department did not respond to inquiries.
https://www.adn.com/politics/2017/07/26 ... or-alaska/
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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Guinevere wrote:My guess is that when the "skinny repeal and wait" version is put up tomorrow, he can vote for *that* claiming its an improvement.
Yep, that seems to be part of his ridiculous plan. I'll vote for it, so long as the House doesn't enact it. Really John, is that how reform happens? Is that bi-partisanship?
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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The GOP Health Plan-or-If You're Not Wealthy You be Screwed

Post by RayThom »

Oh, the poor man. Chemo and radiation are draining the "common sense" out of him. With so little time ahead of him you'd think he would want to do the right thing.

What a way to be ending such an important and illustrious life and career. Shuffling off this mortal coil being widely held as a vindictive SOB. Sad.
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Gee, there are some folks around here who have some crow eating to do... 8-)
GOP Obamacare repeal bill fails in dramatic late-night vote

Washington (CNN)The Senate has dealt a devastating setback to Republican efforts to repeal Obamacare, defeating a GOP "skinny repeal" bill early Friday morning.

Sens. John McCain, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins joined with Democrats to oppose the measure.

McCain, who had voted for a motion to proceed to the bill Monday after returning to Washington following surgery for a brain tumor, held out all day, including in a press conference where he criticized the partisan process that led to the after-midnight vote.

His surprise no vote came after a prolonged drama on the Senate floor. Multiple Republican colleagues, including Vice President Mike Pence, engaged in animated conversations with the Arizona senator who has long cherished his reputation as a maverick.

Republican lawmakers have had several fits and starts this year, including a dramatic vote in the Senate Monday -- but the failure lays bare a hard-to-swallow political reality for Republicans after months of painful negotiations and soul-searching: There is little will left in the GOP to gut a health care law that the party has been railing against for seven years.

Speaking after the vote, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell looked stunned and lamented the vote and the inability of the GOP to fulfill their long-term campaign pledge.

"This is clearly a disappointing moment," McConnell said. "Our constituents have suffered through an awful lot under Obamacare. We thought they deserved better. It's why I and many of my colleagues did as we promised and voted to repeal this failed law. We told our constituents we would vote that way. And when the moment came, when the moment came, most of us did."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/ ... index.html

So, BSG, Ray, Guin, Econo, Rube, Big RR, grab your forks...



Dinner is served...Bon Appétit!


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:P

ETA:

Joe and I on the other hand, will be dining on this:

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Lord Jim
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Sue U wrote:
Lord Jim wrote: Rand Paul is a zealot...
You spelled "idiot" wrong.
No, actually I spelled "asshole" wrong:
1:55 a.m. McConnell’s effort to go to the Defense bill tomorrow was blocked by Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), which means the Senate will go to nominations Monday.
https://thinkprogress.org/track-the-sen ... abf69ec6ca

The reason the Defense Bill was scheduled to be taken up immediately after the Healthcare Bill, was to enable John McCain, (who is the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee) to be able to manage the bill on the floor before he had to return home to Arizona for further cancer treatment.

But this required Unanimous Consent, and Paul apparently felt so viciously spiteful and petty about McCain's no vote on "Skinny Repeal" that he decided to go full-asshole and object.
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Thank you Senator McCain, for finally doing the right thing.

Now, please drag your party to the table and see if both sides can put together legislation that truly improves health care for all Americans. You might start with hearings, so you can hear from us, your constituents what we need, what works for us, and what isn't working.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to Senator Collins and Murkowski, who put their constituents above party politics, in the face of intense lobbying, pressure, and ugly bullying from the White House and others.

I also have to commend Senator Schumer who did a great job keeping the Dems on message and avoiding personal attacks. His statements after the vote were also just right - he will work across the aisle if the Repubkicans come to their senses (and I hope they do and McCain leads the pack). If you watch the video from the vote he also controlled his troops well. When McCain says he is voting "no" the Dems gasp (because none of us really believed he would come through, even his own colleagues) and start applauding. Schumer cut then off immediately (and rightly so).
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Big RR »

Jim--I'd be happy to eat crow if you could just explain why he voted to allow debate to proceed in the first place.

I'd love to see a bipartisan bill starting with hearings, but I honestly don't know where McCain stands given his recent votes, so I'd like to see some others leading the discussions.

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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Big RR wrote:Jim--I'd be happy to eat crow if you could just explain why he voted to allow debate to proceed in the first place.

I'd love to see a bipartisan bill starting with hearings, but I honestly don't know where McCain stands given his recent votes, so I'd like to see some others leading the discussions.

This, too.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Lord Jim
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

if you could just explain why he voted to allow debate to proceed in the first place.
I really don't think I could improve on the explanation he gave for that himself in his Senate speech...

Big RR:

You don't think that in light of the fact that he was the deciding vote in bringing this down, that calling him "Trump's lackey" and saying that he was kissing Trump's ass, and saying that he was taking orders from Trump, (all things you've said in this discussion) is deserving of at least a few mouthfuls of crow? 8-)

ETA:

Guin:

Surely this:
Guinevere wrote:
Guinevere wrote:My guess is that when the "skinny repeal and wait" version is put up tomorrow, he can vote for *that* claiming its an improvement.
Yep, that seems to be part of his ridiculous plan. I'll vote for it, so long as the House doesn't enact it. Really John, is that how reform happens? Is that bi-partisanship?
Earns you a couple of bites of the bird... 8-)
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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

And I acknowledged that up the thread when I thanked McCain (also in my FB and twitter feeds). And where I said I hope he leads a true bipartisan effort to fix health care. Isn't that crow enough?
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

That will do nicely. 8-)
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