Mandatory minimums destroy another life

[BoSoxGal]

And there's this:

Waiver of mandatory minimums

Under Florida law, the prosecutor in a case is the only person eligible to waive any mandatory minimum.[9] The only way a judge can issue a waiver is if he or she were to sentence the defendant as a youthful offender, which would cap the maximum penalty at 6 years of any supervision whether it be prison or probation. One of the qualifications for a youthful offender sentence is that the defendant be no more than 20 years of age at the time of the sentence.[10][11]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

(Links to sources are within the Wiki entry)

[Lord Jim]

But neither change was retroactive.

I really don't understand why a state legislature, having determined that they made a mistake in the original language of a sentencing bill they passed, and therefore votes to change it, wouldn't make it retroactive...

At least so it wouldn't be applied to people who hadn't been sentenced after the laws were changed...presumably they were changed to avoid just this sort of situation...

It seems to me that something like 2-5 years would have been appropriate, but this was obviously way out of line...

[rubato]

Mandatory minimums were a horrible idea born of a lack of faith in ourselves. They said "we don't trust the aggregate judgement of judges (who are human, like ourselves) therefore we will take away judicial discretion and replace it with a mindless hammer of justice which knows no compensation for the human variables in any situation. It was fostered by the same people who hate democracy so much that they revile its effects and demonify all government.

They are Reagan Republicans, in other words.


"government is the problem" it's a cute 1-liner on late night television by a comic but when the President says it it is a perversion of our understanding of ourselves. In a Democracy "government" is us. It is the concrete social expression of ourselves. When you promote the unthinking, mindless, hatred of government in whit is in fact a free democratic society you are saying that democracy is impossible. You are saying you want totalitarianism. You want Trump and his love of Putin.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Rubato, if your alluding to the Trevor Martin case, is a nice case of real 'fake news' In the trial, the jury was convinced it was Martin who was doing the stalking.

Every legitimate discussion of defensive shooting always brings up brandishing. It is very bad for the person with the gun if they pull it out and shoot it to scare or even just pull back an item of clothing to reveal they are packing, unless the circumstances are such they they are convinced it is time to shoot to kill. If it is not that state, leave the gun alone.

snailgate

SG - I assume you mean Trayvon Martin. I don't think the jury was convinced that Martin was doing the stalking: but Zimmerman's defense managed to convince them that they could not be sure, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman was a cowboy wannabe cop with a very itchy trigger finger. With our binary legal system (guilty or innocent) the Rush Limbaughs of this world leapt on the verdict to conclude that Zimmerman was a shining angel and Martin was a belligerent thug.

Martin walked away and Zimmerman followed, hunted, him before murdering him.

yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

No, that's bullshit.

[Lord Jim]

As odious as I find George Zimmerman to be (his subsequent behavior has overwhelmingly confirmed his repulsiveness) anyone who followed the Martin case, and is familiar with the evidence, and the requirements of the charges and the relevant law would know that the jury reached the right verdict in that case.

This would obviously not include rube, who is clearly not only completely ignorant of the facts involved, but is also (as is his general habit) applying iron-willed discipline to the maintenance of his ignorance....

I gotta hand it to the boy...

Nobody works as hard keeping themselves completely ignorant of facts as our rube...

He has a singular talent for it...

ETA:

Mandatory minimums were a well-intended response to some nincompoop judges handing down grossly short sentences in some cases that attracted a lot of publicity...

They have proven to be an overreaction that has been a "cure" worse than the "disease", but the motivation was born of an understandable frustration and outrage by the public with a handful of judges that were misusing their discretion.

[Big RR]

And there's this:

Waiver of mandatory minimums

Under Florida law, the prosecutor in a case is the only person eligible to waive any mandatory minimum.[9] The only way a judge can issue a waiver is if he or she were to sentence the defendant as a youthful offender, which would cap the maximum penalty at 6 years of any supervision whether it be prison or probation. One of the qualifications for a youthful offender sentence is that the defendant be no more than 20 years of age at the time of the sentence.[10][11]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

(Links to sources are within the Wiki entry)

Thanks for posting this BSG. as for limitations on mandatory minimums, I am do not practice criminal law, but I have defended a number of DUI cases in NJ, and the prosecutors have virtually no discretion in these cases. Indeed, they cannot reduce the cha4ges to reckless driving without the judge's approval and only for good cause (I only once had this, in a case where the breathalyzer was operated improperly--I needed to submit expert testimony on this point before the judge agreed to reduce to charge (and this cost my client a lot to engage the expert, but a lot less than it would if she had lost her license). I have a friend who is a municipal prosecutor who told me that any reductions in DUI charges are reviewed by both the county prosecutor and state AG's offices and they face sanctions if they are not properly supported (which might be why they will only bargain with the agreement of the judge, although I haven't researched their discretion).

ETA: one thing I do not know is what would happen if a prosecutor refused to bring a case to court at all rather than reduce the charge. I have never heard of this happening, but I would think that discretion has tor reside with the individual prosecutor I any case (I would imagine someone else could bring it, however). In addition to MADD pressure, DUI is a big boondoggle for the towns and state with thousands in fees and fines in the balance. My guess is the limitation on discretion has more to do with this than with pressure by MADD, but then I'm a cynic by nature.

[ex-khobar Andy]

As odious as I find George Zimmerman to be (his subsequent behavior has overwhelmingly confirmed his repulsiveness) anyone who followed the Martin case, and is familiar with the evidence, and the requirements of the charges and the relevant law would know that the jury reached the right verdict in that case.

Not having read all the evidence but from having followed the case as reported fairly closely, I think that had I been on the jury I might well have voted to find Zimmerman not guilty. And for context, I might also have voted for not guilty for Simpson in the murders of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. But I have very little doubt that despite the prosecution's inability to prove Simpson did it, he did.

We hear a lot about prosecutorial misconduct which undoubtedly happens (pace BSG) but usually in the context of trying to win a case by unfair means - not offering full discovery, coaching witnesses etc. I am certain that prosecutors sometimes deliberately lose cases where it may be politically expedient to do so. Just a few days ago we saw how prosecutors 'inadvertently' missed a filing deadline in the Blackwater case and hence allowed a murdering lying fucking scum to go free. Oh please. I don't think that there was prosecutorial misconduct in the Brown-Goldman case (although I do think that there was a police attempt to burnish the evidence and some very sloppy - in fact criminally incompetent - forensic work) but I am almost convinced that the Martin verdict was in line with the prosecution's desires.

And just in case I have left any doubt: based on the evidence as presented and the charges, Zimmerman possibly should have been declared not guilty. But based on my personal beliefs about Zimmerman's behavior that night (as confirmed by subsequent revelations which of course could not and should not be taken into account) he should not be free to wander the streets with a gun. The binary nature of justice (yes/no) and of our public discourse these days means that the not guilty verdict allowed the Limbaughs of this world to feel free to make the conclusion: Zimmerman = not guilty therefore Trayvon Martin = young thug who got what he deserved.

[BoSoxGal]

I take no offense, Andy - there's a reason I chose to get out of the prosecution game, and quite frankly I am pretty certain that had I not gotten into it to begin with, I might have preserved my health.

Clearly there are many people who can look injustice in the face every day and continue to happily participate in it; but others are tormented by the realization that a system in which they've believed all their lives is fundamentally broken, full of twisted people who will do anything to get ahead even if the price is other people's liberty and destruction of their lives and the lives of all the friends and family who are also affected by injustice. My time up close and personal made me realize that the bad cases you hear about in the news aren't the exception - they're very common.

I used to watch Forensic Files and other true crime shows with fascination for how the good guys caught the bad guys - now I question every depiction, wondering what evidence was suppressed or mishandled or just exactly what were the credentials of the podunk fire investigator whose testimony sent a man to his death for an 'arson' resulting in deaths that was actually a fire caused by faulty wiring. I've worked with those kind of people and shudder to realize how many of them are in our system, in small towns and big cities all over this country. Massachusetts had to vacate more than 20,000 convictions because of a crooked toxicology lab chemist, this is not just rural Montana shit, it's everywhere. Our system is seriously, profoundly sick - and while I've met a few slimy defense attorneys in my day, the real problem with the criminal justice system is shitty cops and bad prosecutors - and there are thousands of both.

Right now I'm focused on restoring my health as much as possible, but I hope in the future to participate in some way in reforming the system, whether by working for a conviction review unit, or an innocence project, or as a public defender again. I don't think I would ever try working from the inside out again - being a totally honest, open file, straight dealing rehabilitation-oriented prosecutor is a recipe for living as a pariah amongst one's colleagues.

Here's an interesting read:

Innocence is Irrelevant

[Burning Petard]

I note that arrest alone was enough to get her and her family evicted. Is it any wonder many people avoid any contact with police? By definition, any adult living in public housing is 'under resourced' just to manage the problems of ordinary life.

snailgate.

[rubato]

Like I said, Zimmerman hunted him:

" About two minutes into the call, Zimmerman said, "he's running".[50] The dispatcher asked, "He's running? Which way is he running?"[51] Noises on the tape at this point have been interpreted by some media outlets as the sound of a car door chime, possibly indicating Zimmerman opened his car door.[52] Zimmerman followed Martin, eventually losing sight of him.[50] The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following him. When Zimmerman answered, "yeah", the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman responded, "Okay."[53] Zimmerman asked that police call him upon their arrival so he could provide his location.[50] Zimmerman ended the call at 7:15 p.m.

After Zimmerman ended his call with police, a violent encounter took place between him and Martin. It ended with Zimmerman fatally shooting Martin 70 yards (65 m) from the rear door of the townhouse where Martin was staying.[54][Note 5] ... "

Just the facts, Ma'am.

yrs,
rubato