Fire & Fury

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Burning Petard wrote:"You’re either with Trump, or you’re not a patriot." or, as Samuel Johnson said, "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Me, I prefer to get my morality from sources more American, such as Mark Twain, who had fictional Huck Finn choose between conforming to authority or doing the right thing, conclude: well, I guess I will go to Hell then. I'm with Huck.

snailgate
What BP/Snailgate said.

And btw; why aren't you using your full handle, as I remember it — "Burning Petard of Restraint" ?
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Burning Petard
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Burning Petard »

Burning Petard of Restraint became reserved for formal situations when many 'handle' forms would not handle that many characters.

Snailgate precedes it, as bad derivative of auf Deutsch Geht Schnell

snailgate.

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Econoline
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Econoline »

Pretty good analysis, from a retired U.S. Army officer:
  • A 25-Year Army Vet Explains the North Korea Warning Sign He's Waiting For
    Trump will continue to throw tantrums. Keep an eye on James Mattis.
    BY ROBERT BATEMAN | AUG 9, 2017

    This is a crisis of American making, and more particularly a crisis created by the Trump administration. On Tuesday, there was a briefing by the United States government to various members of what Trump calls the "fake news." You can decide how "fake" they might be (or how much hypocrisy was involved) in this act. It was tough to tell that this was effectively an "official leak," because the reports all referred to anonymous sources. As The Washington Post put it:
    North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment.

    It went on, further making it look like this story was the result of deep investigating by the paper.
    "The IC [intelligence community] assesses North Korea has produced nuclear weapons for ballistic missile delivery, to include delivery by ICBM-class missiles," the assessment states, in an excerpt read to The Washington Post. Two U.S. officials familiar with the assessment verified its broad conclusions. It is not known whether the reclusive regime has successfully tested the smaller design, although North Korea officially claimed last year that it had done so. The DIA and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment.

    The problem here is that the White House itself authorized some senior leaders or briefers to give this information out, but only "on background." According to the unwritten rules of press-relations, that means that the reporters cannot reveal who gave them the information. This allows the administration (theoretically) to maintain deniability, or at least it used to. I've written about this whole process before, here in Esquire.

    Bottom Line: This current crisis was created, explicitly, by the decision to release this information, when to release it, and how to release it to the public. All of which explains why I am slightly more worried than I have been in the past.

    See, after that initial report kicked up a massive brouhaha, President Trump cranked it up a notch by making what may prove to be one of his dumbest statements ever when he explicitly threatened North Korea that they better not issue so much as a threat.
    "North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. He has been very threatening - beyond a normal statement - and as I said they will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which the world has never seen before."

    To which North Korea, automatically, did exactly that. I mean seriously, nobody who has looked at North Korea for more than 10 minutes could possibly be surprised by that response. Almost as soon as Trump's comments hit the news, North Korea made statements about how they are making plans to hit the U.S. territory of Guam. Which essentially makes our president look like a fool, because now he has nowhere to go but to carry out his threat, or admit that he was just talking out of his fourth-point-of-contact. (Now they're spinning it as "improv.") And this is where I start to worry.

    It has long been apparent that this president is not conversant with international issues, military issues, and, apparently, economics. But what he does have is power, specifically, the ability to issue launch orders for various forms of military attacks. Disassociated from realities in all three of those areas, it seems quite possible that this commander-in-chief might, in a fit of pique, actually initiate a new war. (It won't be his fault, in his mind of course, despite the fact that I have just demonstrated how this entire crisis is the creation of his own actions.)

    So what am I looking for as a siren?

    James Mattis.

    If Secretary of Defense Mattis resigns, anytime soon (say in the next few weeks), all bets are off. Why does this worry me? Because Mattis would resign, as I think would national security adviser H.R. McMaster, should an order be issued to commit overt military action. If you see that happen, maybe we should all worry. Until then, relax but monitor.
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dales
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by dales »

Wake me when it's over.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

Burning Petard
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Burning Petard »

Yes, this is tending to look very much like the former POTUS' announcements about 'red lines' which the government of Syria better not cross. Perhaps the current POTUS, when he decides to send missiles to North Korea, POTUS with tell them where the targets are so they have time to move people and equipment to safety, as he did when he sent all those missiles to Syria.

snailgate

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Econoline
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Econoline »

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Lord Jim
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Lord Jim »

Digression:

I've always thought it was a little ostentatious for "George R.R Martin" to add the additional "R" in an obvious attempt to draw a parallel between himself and J R.R. Tolkien...

Martin was born George Raymond Martin; one "R"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._R._Martin
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by BoSoxGal »

An ad company came up with this concept for advertising condoms - story is a few months old, but relevant here:

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Econoline
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Econoline »

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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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RayThom
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Fire And Fury

Post by RayThom »

So much for his assertion that you don't tell your adversary what your intentions are in advance.

Honesty, I often think Lord Dampnut speaks out his ass.
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by BoSoxGal »

Often? When does he not? :shrug
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Lord Jim »

The "good news" is that nobody takes what our so-called President says seriously....

No, really, that is the good news... :roll: :loon
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by BoSoxGal »

Except, maybe, the paranoid dictator of North Korea.

I almost took an attorney job on Guam when I decided not to run for reelection as county attorney - but I decided not to because there are very few birds on Guam and I didn't want to live somewhere without birdsong. Looks like maybe I dodged a nuke.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by rubato »

Lord Jim wrote:Digression:

I've always thought it was a little ostentatious for "George R.R Martin" to add the additional "R" in an obvious attempt to draw a parallel between himself and J R.R. Tolkien...

Martin was born George Raymond Martin; one "R"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._R._Martin

Hunh. I thought it was his "Hobo Name" You know the RR stands for "rail road"


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Econoline
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Econoline »

  • President Trump called Guam Gov. Eddie Calvo to express his support to the U.S. territory amid the threats of an imminent strike from North Korea. But the commander in chief told him not to worry because the threat of a nuclear attack would only help Guam woo tourists.
:roll: :loon
(link to story)
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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Bicycle Bill »

The one thing Trump's presidency will most likely do is put the Onion out of business.  Honestly, when Trump says that the threat of nuclear war will get people "All over the world the world ... talking about Guam" and "tourism, I can say this, your tourism, you’re going to go up like tenfold with the expenditure of no money" in the first place, howinthehell can you satirize something that ridiculous?

And this guy claims he's one of the smartest men in the world?  And there are still people who believe it??
To paraphrase Luke 23:34 — "Forgive us, Lord, we did not know what we were doing".
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Econoline
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Econoline »

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  • Now, you have to assume that the president wouldn't make such a statement unless he could back it up with facts. I mean, right?

    Thus, logically,

    GIVEN:

    The North Korean nuclear weapons program began in the 1950s at the end of the Korean War (or ceasefire, depending on how you define "end.")

    AND

    Domestic North Korean nuclear weapons development ramped up in earnest in the 1980s during the Reagan administration with the completion of a five-megawatt USSR-designed nuclear reactor at Yongbyon in 1986.

    AND

    North Korean nuclear weapons development then went into high gear under George H.W. Bush after North Korea's nuclear sponsor and supplier, the Soviet Union, collapsed in 1991.

    AND

    Bill Clinton attempted to strike a deal with North Korea, halting nuclear weapons development in 1994. Under the deal, North Korea would agree to shut down the plutonium based Yongbyon reactor in exchange for two US built uranium reactors that could only be used to produce electricity and not weapons-grade radioactives. Ultimately that fell through -- though development was paused for several years.

    AND

    In 2002, the new US President, George W. Bush publicly designated North Korea as part of the his "Axis of Evil." North Korea then withdraw from the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty and resumed weapons development at an accelerated pace. In 2005, North Korea announced it had functional nuclear weapons, and on 9 October, 2006, they detonated their first nuclear weapon -- 5 years into the George W. Bush administration.

    AND

    Barack Obama became president on 20 January, 2009. Hillary Clinton was appointed Secretary of State on January 21st.

    For the Creationists, that means Hillary Clinton became Secretary of State NEARLY FOUR YEARS AFTER North Korea detonated its first nuclear weapon.

    Now, again, according to the current president of the United States, somehow, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is responsible for North Korea having nuclear weapons despite that having happened BEFORE she actually took office.

    MEANING

    Somehow, Hillary Clinton would have had to have been able to influence North Korean weapons development beginning the 1950s.

    Now, it's unreasonable to believe that Clinton, who was born in October of 1947, would, as a 10 year old girl, have that sort of power and influence.

    THEREFORE

    The ONLY logic conclusion is that an adult Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State MUST have had access to some secret US government time travel program.

    Which brings to me at last to Clinton's only real failing: Why in the hell are we dealing with a nuclear armed madman in the first place?

    Seriously, why didn't Hillary Clinton use her magic time traveling capability to get rid of Trump BEFORE he became a problem?

    Didn't this woman ever see Terminator?
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Fire & Fury

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Econoline
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Re: Fire & Fury

Post by Econoline »

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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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