Trump's Strange Alabama speech

[Big RR]

I honestly hope that the NFL stops the playing of the national anthem before the game, or that the teams elect to just not take the field until after it. We don't stand for the national anthem before movies or plays or TV shows, why should sporting events be any different? Face it, all the NFL wants to do is sell tickets, there is likely no NFL-wide position on this issue. If the fans object, just play it before the teams take the field--hell, anyone who wants to can stand whenever they choose--some asses don't sit down the entire game.

[ex-khobar Andy]

So much for 'taking a knee' as form of disrespect for the flag. When did it become a sign of disrespect to kneel?

snailgate.

Nail on head, BP/SG. If fraudsters, adulterers and pussy grabbers (to name just one) put their little hands on their tiny hearts and stand to attention for the flag, why is one honorable (as far as we know) citizen a "son of a bitch" if he chooses to kneel instead?

[Guinevere]

1. Because he is a black man.

2. Because tiny handed pussy grabbers are obsessed with the military and somehow their tiny brain equates flag with military/first responders (which is of course utter bs - the flag belongs to all of us).

[Joe Guy]

When did it become a sign of disrespect to kneel?

When Kaepernick said this:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

[dales]

Only Steeler who took field for national anthem leads NFL in jersey sales


The Pittsburgh Steelers decided as a team to remain in the locker room before their game Sunday while the national anthem was being played, but one player strayed from the pack and walked out of the tunnel to pay tribute to the American flag. That player now has the hottest selling jersey in the NFL.

Steelers offensive lineman Alejandro Villanueva, a former Army Ranger who served three tours in Afghanistan, has seen a massive spike in his jersey sales over the past 24 hours. As Chuck Schilken of the Los Angeles Times discovered, Villanueva’s No. 78 jersey is the first one that appears in the online NFL Shop under the list of top sellers. The same is true for name and number T-shirts.

A spokesman for Fantatics, the company that runs the NFL’s online store, confirmed to ESPN’s Darren Rovell that Villanueva was the best-selling player by midday on Monday. The 29-year-old beat out star quarterbacks Tom Brady, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and Aaron Rodgers, who were the other four players in the top five.

Villanueva’s decision to leave his team in the locker room and emerge from the tunnel drew mixed reaction from the Steelers organization. Head coach Mike Tomlin said he was “looking for 100 percent participation,” and ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reported that several Steelers players were surprised Villanueva took the field.

“I don’t want to go into that, but we support our guy Al. He feels he had to do it,” defensive end Cam Hayward said. “This guy served our country, and we thank him for it.”

Veteran linebacker James Harrison admitted he was unaware of Villanueva’s intentions.

“We thought we were all in attention with the same agreement, obviously,” he said. “But I guess we weren’t.”

National anthem protests were more widespread than ever across the NFL Sunday in the wake of Donald Trump saying team owners should fire players who choose to protest.

Villanueva’s sudden spike in popularity proves that many fans were not on board with players protesting, which is something we knew from the way fans in New England reacted to Patriots players kneeling during the anthem.

[BoSoxGal]

And now for the rest of the story:

I threw my teammates under the bus': Alejandro Villanueva says he planned to join Steelers in national anthem boycott and only ended up on the field when he accidentally walked out of the tunnel.

The Pittsburgh Steelers player who is being heralded for taking the field on Sunday for the national anthem despite the rest of the team boycotting has now revealed that it was all a big mistake, and he meant to be in the tunnel with his fellow players.

'Unfortunately I threw my teammates under the bus, unintentionally,' Alejandro Villanueva said on Monday.

'Every single time I see that picture of me standing by myself I feel embarrassed.'

Villanueva then explained that he had asked to stand in the front of the team with the captains of the squad at the last second so that they showed some respect for wounded veterans.

That plan backfired though when he did not stop to check that the captains were by his side as he walked to the opening of the tunnel, which is how the 6ft 9in lineman ended up in plain view on the field as the national anthem began to play.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ident.html

[Econoline]

A comment from someone somewhere else on da Intertoobz:

• What I don't understand about why taking a knee is viewed as so disrespectful to the flag is that no one is looking at the symbolism of taking a knee itself. What other time in a football game do players take a knee (other than your run out the clock)? When a player is injured. It's actually a sign of respect there. To me symbolically taking a knee during the anthem isn't a middle finger to the flag or the military, but rather it's the most cordial way of saying "this country is injured". Who wouldn't agree with that?

[BoSoxGal]

Here's something else I just found from the intertoobz:

For all those who care enough to understand: I have a friend who just posted this backstory. Did you know this?

Aug 14, 2016- Colin Kaepernick sits for the national anthem.....and no one noticed.

Aug 20th, 2016- Colin again sits, and again, no one noticed.

Aug 26th, 2016- Colin sits and this time he is met with a level of vitriol unseen against an athlete. Even the future President of the United States took shots at him while on the campaign trail. Colin went on to explain his protest had NOTHING to with the military, but he felt it hard to stand for a flag that didn't treat people of color fairly.

Then on on Aug 30th, 2016 Nate Boyer, a former Army Green Beret turned NFL long snapper, penned an open letter to Colin in the Army Times. In it he expressed how Colin's sitting affected him.

Then a strange thing happened. Colin was able to do what most Americans to date have not...

He listened.

In his letter Mr. Boyer writes:

"I’m not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I’d be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I’ve never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you’ve gone through is as ignorant as someone who’s never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it’s like to go to war.

Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it."

Mr. Boyer goes on to write "There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind.

I look forward to the day you're inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I'll be standing right there next to you."

Empathy and understanding was shown by Mr. Boyer.........and Mr. Kaepernick reciprocated. Colin invited Nate to San Diego where the two had a 90 minute discussion and Nate proposed Colin kneel instead of sit.
But why kneel? In a military funeral, after the flag is taken off the casket of the fallen military member, it is smartly folded 13 times and then presented to the parents, spouse or child of the fallen member by a fellow service member while KNEELING. The two decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw.

Empathy, not zealotry under the guise of patriotism, is the only way meaningful discussion can be had. Mr. Kaepernick listened to all of you that say he disrespects the military and extended an olive branch to find a peace.
When will America listen to him?

[BoSoxGal]

Taking a stand: Entire Dallas Cowboys team takes a knee - including owner Jerry Jones - BEFORE the National Anthem to boos in the crowd before standing and linking their arms during Star Spangled Banner.

[dales]

Top post @FB.

Oh BTW: BSG your attention is needed at the movie quiz.

[BoSoxGal]

Top post @FB.

Oh BTW: BSG your attention is needed at the movie quiz.

'We the People' includes me and many millions more Americans who are thrilled to see the solidarity in the NFL in resistance to Trump and in support of the knee taken by Colin Kaepernick.

[Bicycle Bill]

The famous early motion picture mogul, Sam Goldwyn, was once quoted as saying that he made movies to be entertainment, and that if he wanted to send a message he'd use Western Union.  I would assume, despite the near-reverence accorded to pro football (or other sports such as basketball, NASCAR, or baseball by their respective fans), that they too are nothing more than various forms of entertainment as well.

The NFL, the NFL players, the fans, the talking heads on ESPN, CNN, Faux News, and the rest of the media, and even our SCROTUS, Dumb'old Trump himself, would do well to remember this.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

Puhleeze


It's the message that's causing this consternation, not the fact that players are sending one. If the message was more palatable to you and the others pissed about this, there would be no problem with it. Where was the outrage when the NFL went pink to spread the message 'save the boobies'? Hypocrisy.

[Bicycle Bill]

It's the message that's causing this consternation, not the fact that players are sending one. If the message was more palatable to you and the others pissed about this, there would be no problem with it. Where was the outrage when the NFL went pink to spread the message 'save the boobies'? Hypocrisy.

I think it was when I was posting at the old "Le Chat House", before I came here, that I did at one time express a certain amount of — not outrage, but concern/dissatisfaction/disappointment at the way MLB (at least to my way of thinking) went overboard when they 'went pink' with pink bats, pink bases, pink gloves, pink caps and accents on the players' uniforms, and even, if I remember correctly, pink baselines.  There were a couple of people on that board, people who did not possess a 'Y' chromosome, who proceeded to chew on my ass for that as well.

So — been there, done that, and bought the T-shirt.

-"BB"-

[Lord Jim]

Taking a stand: Entire Dallas Cowboys team takes a knee - including owner Jerry Jones - BEFORE the National Anthem to boos in the crowd before standing and linking their arms during Star Spangled Banner.

I thought that was an interesting approach; de-coupling the protest from the playing of the Anthem strikes me as the right thing to do.

When did it become a sign of disrespect to kneel?

When Kaepernick said this:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

Thanks for posting that Joe, and providing some much needed context to this discussion.

You have to admit, if you find yourself on the same side of an argument as one Donald J Trump, it's well past time to acknowledge that you were wrong.

Puhleeze...

I categorically reject the idea that there's some sort of binary choice here between standing with Colin "Piggy-cop Socks" Kaepernick, or standing with Donald " The Dog Whistler" Trump...

In my first post in this discussion I gave a very pointed and scathing critique of Trump's words actions and motives regarding this brouhaha. His intervention in this has been appalling, disgraceful and beyond inappropriate for a POTUS.

But recognizing those facts about Trump, does not then require one to turn around and embrace the wrong-headed and misdirected actions of Mr. Kaepernick...

It's perfectly possible to be opposed to both...

It's the message that's causing this consternation, not the fact that players are sending one. If the message was more palatable to you and the others pissed about this, there would be no problem with it.

That comment strikes me as an attempt (more subtle than rube's vile insinuation, but nevertheless attempting to make the same smear) to say, "anyone who opposes what Kaepernick and Co. have been doing is a racist"....

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have made very VERY clear that I would be opposed to using a display of disrespect for the National Anthem by ANYONE for ANY cause to be inappropriate and something I would condemn...

If a group of players get together and decide to kneel during the playing of the Anthem to protest Ronald Reagan not getting enough credit for winning the Cold War, you can mark me down as being opposed to it...

So I'm...



ETA:

A very thoughtful and balanced perspective on this by Bob Costas:

http://www.msnbc.com/brian-williams/wat ... 4893635942

[Big RR]

Jim--using Kaepernick's words "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder"

I see no disrespect, more a f3elling that one is not going to jump on the pride bandwagon; he felt some things are wrong, and refused to stand proudly, but then knelt, still showing some respect, and perhaps even praying for a more just and better country. If he was pissing on the field or mooning the flag or loudly sounding an air horn I could agree with you that it could be a sign of disrespect, but silently kneeling is not a sign a disrespect, although not standing does make a statement that there is something wrong in his opinion.

[Burning Petard]

I thank BSG for posting the interchange between the protesting football player and the combat veteran.

I reflect on the irony of the 'popular' statement posted twice above about respecting heroes and scorning rich individuals.

The POTUS was a draft dodger who said Senator McCain was no hero. POTUS is also self described as very rich.

snailgate.

[RayThom]

... went overboard when they 'went pink'...

BB, this one's for you.

[rubato]

“The young, black athletes are not disrespecting America or the military by taking a knee during the anthem,” WFAA reporter Hansen said Monday. “They are respecting the best thing about America. It’s a dog whistle to the racists among us to say otherwise.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/dale-han ... oys-2017-9



yrs,
rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

Four NCAA basketball coaches are being charged with fraud, bribery etc. in connection with recruiting; and it appears from the reporting that at least one of the associated teams was the University of Louisville. (I lived in Louisville for around 7 years.) Louisville's coach Rick Pitino is paid $5 mill per year and is the highest paid employee of Kentucky.

Around 10 years ago Pitino confessed to shagging his assistant coach's wife at a restaurant in Louisville; but he seems to have been forgiven once they won the NCAA championship in 2013. This championship was later vacated by NCAA because of various recruitment shenanigans. He has made it clear that there will be no protests (kneeling and such during the National Anthem) on his watch. Pigino of corse justifies his high salary on the grounds that he is a role model for alll there young men who would, if it weren't for him, be on drugs/in jail/basically losers. I have heard him on this topic on TV ad nauseam.

Pitino stands for the anthem with his hand on his heart. So that's OK then. Do we need another reason to be with Colin Kaepernick on this?