Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election...

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Lord Jim
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Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election...

Post by Lord Jim »

A choice that a healthy political party does not force its elected officials to make...
Republican Sen. Jeff Flake won't run for re-election

Washington (CNN)Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona, who has sparred frequently with President Donald Trump, will not run for re-election, he said Tuesday in a blistering floor speech bemoaning the changing tenor of politics in the United States.

"If I have been critical, it's not because I relish criticizing the behavior of the President of the United States," Flake said. "If I have been critical, it is because I believe that it is my obligation to do so, as a matter of duty and conscience."

He continued, "The notion that one should stay silent as the norms and values that keep America strong are undermined and as the alliances and agreements that ensure the stability of the entire world are routinely threatened by the level of thought that goes into 140 characters -- the notion that one should say and do nothing in the face of such mercurial behavior is ahistoric and, I believe, profoundly misguided."

His decision means Flake joins retiring Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker as an outspoken critic of Trump with nothing to lose in the year before 2018's midterm elections.

"It's difficult to move forward in a Republican primary if you have been critical of any of the behavior that's gone on," Flake said on CNN's "The Lead." "We Republicans certainly can't countenance that kind of behavior. We ought to stand up and say 'This is not right. This is not us. This is not conservative.'" :clap:

Flake's political fortunes suffered as a result of his long-running feud with Trump -- including an anti-Trump tome Flake published over the summer. Private polls conducted by Republican and Democratic groups in Arizona, sources with those groups said, showed him on track to lose badly in next August's Republican primary to challenger Kelli Ward.[A POS and a whack job if ever there was one; she'd fit right in with Trump]

His retirement is a double-edged sword for Trump's White House: It opens the door for Flake to be replaced with a more supportive Republican. But his seat is also a prime Democratic pick-up opportunity.

And it turns Arizona -- once a Republican stronghold but increasingly competitive in recent elections -- into perhaps the most important state in the 2018 midterms, with Flake's seat now open and questions looming about

Sen. John McCain's long-term prognosis as he is treated for brain cancer.

McCain and Corker were both in attendance of Flake's Senate floor speech Tuesday and gave him a standing ovation at conclusion of his remarks -- as did Wyoming Republican Sen. John Barrasso.

"One of the greatest people I've served with," Corker said after the speech, describing Flake and adding later,

"He's what I would call a real conservative."

Corker said Flake told him about his decision after the lunch among Republican senators earlier Tuesday.
When asked what it said about the Senate that Flake said he couldn't fit into the current Republican party, Barrasso said that is up to every senator to decide.

"Every senator speaks for themselves. I continue to be very privileged to represent the people of Wyoming and hope to continue to do that in the future," Barrasso said.

Sen. John Cornyn, the second ranking Republican in the chamber, said it is "a very sad day" and GOP Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, who recently decided to skip a run for governor and stay in the chamber, called Flake's decision "incredibly disappointed."

Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia left the floor in tears following Flake's speech, calling it "depressing."

"When someone as good and decent a person as Jeff Flake does not think he can continue in the body, it's a very tragic day for the institution," Kaine said.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/ ... index.html

If you haven't seen his speech, it's well worth watching in its entirety:



A party that's losing Bob Corkers and Jeff Flakes and "gaining" Roy Moores and Kelli Wards sure ain't oarin' in the right direction... :?
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Darren
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Darren »

If you can't stand the heat ...
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by BoSoxGal »

I’m deeply impressed with Senator Flake; he is either incredibly shrewd in looking to his long term political future, or he is actually a man of principle. There is, of course, no reason that he couldn’t be both.

The Republicans who continue to stay silent and/or supportive of Trump will one day, I hope, come to rue that choice.

I hope that the Democrats are getting their shit together; if not we really are watching our country devolve into theocratic fascism if the Republicans stay in power with the Bannons and Moores and other extremists taking the lead. I have to admit that there was a big part of me that thought I was overreacting last November and that the system would self-correct - but what is happening is pretty horrific and I really fear for the future.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Of course the Trumpeters will take this as a badge of honour and a vindication:
Reckless, outrageous and undignified behavior has become excused and countenanced as telling it like it is when it is actually just reckless, outrageous and undignified.
They will claim that cautious, conventional and dignified has got us to the problems we have today and that it's necessary to drain that swamp to get to where we need to be.

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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Econoline »

From David Gerrold (on Facebook):
  • “If Flake were truly going to be courageous in his opposition to the orange shit-slinging macaque, he'd declare himself an independent and caucus with the Democrats. That would put more pressure on the Republicans to shape up.

    “But ... let's face it. Ain't nobody in Congress gonna be the subject of a
    Profiles In Courage special.”
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Guinevere »

Econoline wrote:From David Gerrold (on Facebook):
  • “If Flake were truly going to be courageous in his opposition to the orange shit-slinging macaque, he'd declare himself an independent and caucus with the Democrats. That would put more pressure on the Republicans to shape up.

    “But ... let's face it. Ain't nobody in Congress gonna be the subject of a
    Profiles In Courage special.”
Exactly - it's been done before. And he would vote to convict after a trial on Articles of Impeachment in 2019. Like I said before about him - all talk, puffery, and self-promotion. A real patriot would stand and fight.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by BoSoxGal »

I can see merit in that approach - but I can also see why he’d want to stay in his party and hold his colleagues to account. Staying in the party allows him to work with McCain, Corker, Collins and Murkowski to undermine some of the worst things Trump tries to do, no?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Crackpot »

So in order to keep from supporting things he doesn't believe in he should declare support for things he doesn't believe in?

This isn't a binary either or world we live in people.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Lord Jim »

Beat me to the punch, CP...

I can certainly understand why Democratic partisans would want to set the "You don't really oppose Trump and Trumpism unless you embrace the Democratic Party agenda" standard but it's not a reasonable bar...

Renouncing and opposing him and his poisonous impact on our country does not simultaneously require that one support a single-payer healthcare system, or oppose lower taxes, increased defense spending, regulation reduction, free market solutions, and free trade...

The problem is (as Flake eloquently lays it out) that it is becoming increasingly difficult to succeed as a Republican office holder who supports traditional Republican Reagan-type conservative principles and positions while also opposing Trump, Trumpism and the destructive effects on our political system that they represent...

One should not have to choose between rejecting Trump, and rejecting fundamental mainstream conservative/Republican positions...

If that's the point we're coming to, then there is a desperate need for a third party...
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Econoline »

IMO there appear to be more politicians with "fundamental mainstream conservative/Republican positions" in the Democratic party than in the Republican party nowadays. (Obama, for instance, would be perfectly at home in the GOP of Eisenhower in the 1950s...) It seems like, as an Independent, Flake would be able to stake out positions similar to Angus King of Maine, and could pick and choose on which issues he votes with the Rs and on which issues he votes with the Ds. The "caucusing with the Democrats" thing would be for the purpose of committee assignments more than anything else: if he left the Republican party they'd surely strip him of all of his current committee assignments (and committees are, after all, where most of the work gets done); caucusing with the Democrats would give him at least some of that back.

And realistically, while there's pretty much NO chance of anyone winning as a Democrat in Arizona, and pretty much NO chance of a sane Republican defeating a teabagger like Kelli Ward in the Republican primary, a declared (and experienced) *INDEPENDENT* might, just might, be able to pull together enough sane Republicans and conservative Democrats to win in a 3-way general election.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Lord Jim »

Flake could remain in the GOP caucus and still run as an independent, and if he won continue to caucus as a Republican. (That's what Lisa Murkowski did after she got beat by a whackadoodle in the GOP senate primary in Alaska in 2010.)

And with a two seat majority, McConnell certainly wouldn't kick him out. (Mitch was particularly effusive in his praise for Flake when he took to the Senate floor immediately after Jeff's speech)
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Sue U »

Lord Jim wrote:One should not have to choose between rejecting Trump, and rejecting fundamental mainstream conservative/Republican positions...

If that's the point we're coming to, then there is a desperate need for a third party...
Given that there is no love for Jeff Flake among the Arizona GOP faithful, who are set to nominate whackjob Chemtrail Kelli Ward for his seat, "fundamental mainstream conservatism" is no longer an operating principle for the Republican Party; it is now the party of conspiracy theories, vicious personal attacks, governmental anarchy and pandering to its base's very worst impulses fueled by ignorance and fear.

Jeff Flake really had no choice but to retire or be trounced in the primary. The Steve Bannon-Sean Hannity-Alex Jones propaganda machine has taken over manufacturing these monsters and has very effectively seized control of the party, largely as the result of establishment complicity, appeasement and cowardice. And true to their Frankensteinian form, the monsters are wreaking destruction on those who thought they were the masters. Having ginned up the racist, xenophobic and politically retarded Tea Party faction as latter-day Know-Nothings solely to oppose everything Obama, it was only a matter of time before this rabid dog came back to bite Mitch McConnell in the ass. This abject failure in both political strategy and governmental policy can be laid right at the feet of the GOP leadership, who in 2009 traded any semblance of principle for grabbing power at any cost, without even bothering to construct an actual legislative agenda. And for those about to embrace Kelli Ward as their new standard-bearer, here's a little reminder of what the Republican party "leadership" thought of her just last year:



Yes, Jim, you're gonna need a new party. But I sure wouldn't count on those craven lickspittles in "leadership" to build it for you.
GAH!

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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Guinevere »

Lord Jim wrote:Beat me to the punch, CP...

I can certainly understand why Democratic partisans would want to set the "You don't really oppose Trump and Trumpism unless you embrace the Democratic Party agenda" standard but it's not a reasonable bar...

Renouncing and opposing him and his poisonous impact on our country does not simultaneously require that one support a single-payer healthcare system, or oppose lower taxes, increased defense spending, regulation reduction, free market solutions, and free trade...

The problem is (as Flake eloquently lays it out) that it is becoming increasingly difficult to succeed as a Republican office holder who supports traditional Republican Reagan-type conservative principles and positions while also opposing Trump, Trumpism and the destructive effects on our political system that they represent...

One should not have to choose between rejecting Trump, and rejecting fundamental mainstream conservative/Republican positions...

If that's the point we're coming to, then there is a desperate need for a third party...
Flake is trying to position himself as a hero of the resistance -- and lets face it -- the resistance has been mostly on the left. Yes, there are those principled Republicans who tried to wrest the nomination from Trump, and who didn't vote for him, and yes even voted for HRC. But there is not one voice in the leadership of the Republican Party that represents those people. Instead, they have continued to be "craven lickspittles" who have repeatedly placed their legislative agendas ahead of the good of the country, who are willing to look away from serious meddling in our election process by a foreign government, who don't care one bit about the influence of foreign money on our so-called president or his allies, who don't seem to care if the presidency becomes a cash machine for grifters, and who try and normalize what is universally known to be dis-normal behavior.

So yeah, you do need a third party. I think we probably need a fourth party as well.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Big RR »

I think you're right about a third and fourth party--we definitely need something.

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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Darren »

Big RR wrote:I think you're right about a third and fourth party--we definitely need something.
That won't happen. The much vaunted tea party wasn't a real party. Given the number of hoops to jump through, I don't see how a party can be created that deals with all of the state and local level idiosyncrasies along with the federal gotchas. Add in the dramatic downturn of donations to the Democrat Party and it really looks like politics turned some kind of corner. We may not know the significance for years to come.

Trump being caught off base in Alabama may be meaningful. If you additionally consider the implications of the Bundy Ranch get together it adds substance to the fact there's a substantial majority that both parties have ignored. It strikes me that politics has devolved, for good or bad, into a barroom brawl where none of the participants and bystanders are going to escape unscathed.
Last edited by Darren on Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Sue U »

Darren wrote: That won't happen. The much vaunted tea party wasn't a real party.
The "Tea Party" was never supposed to be a real party in and of itself; it is a tool of political terror that has been used by far-right laissez-faire capitalist interests to hijack the GOP. As I have been saying since 2010:
Sue U wrote:the Tea Party is quite literally an attempt to appropriate the existing Republican Party apparatus and replace it with a fundamentally neo-Fascist party financed by powerful anti-tax, anti-regulation corporate interests working hand-in-glove with far-right extremist ideologues to manipulate an angry and ignorant bloc of the electorate. As long as the Koch-Olin-Scaife cabal has money (and they have more money than most countries do), they will be buying elections and the GOP until their corporations are not only people, too, my friend, but are actually holding seats in government.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10209&p=129261&hili ... fe#p129261

The term "Tea Party" itself has probably outlived its usefulness, since there's no point in even trying to be coy about it anymore. The production of erstwhile "Tea Party" candidates has now been farmed out to right-wing media outlets that are used both as PR firms to publicize and promote their candidacies and as scourges of the "establishment" politicians who might resist the takeover.

If you want to create a "new" party, this is how you do it: You hollow out an existing party from the inside, retaining only the skin, so that your voters never see the difference.
GAH!

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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Darren »

Sue U wrote:
Darren wrote: That won't happen. The much vaunted tea party wasn't a real party.
The "Tea Party" was never supposed to be a real party in and of itself; it is a tool of political terror that has been used by far-right laissez-faire capitalist interests to hijack the GOP. As I have been saying since 2010:
Sue U wrote:the Tea Party is quite literally an attempt to appropriate the existing Republican Party apparatus and replace it with a fundamentally neo-Fascist party financed by powerful anti-tax, anti-regulation corporate interests working hand-in-glove with far-right extremist ideologues to manipulate an angry and ignorant bloc of the electorate. As long as the Koch-Olin-Scaife cabal has money (and they have more money than most countries do), they will be buying elections and the GOP until their corporations are not only people, too, my friend, but are actually holding seats in government.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10209&p=129261&hili ... fe#p129261

The term "Tea Party" itself has probably outlived its usefulness, since there's no point in even trying to be coy about it anymore. The production of erstwhile "Tea Party" candidates has now been farmed out to right-wing media outlets that are used both as PR firms to publicize and promote their candidacies and as scourges of the "establishment" politicians who might resist the takeover.

If you want to create a "new" party, this is how you do it: You hollow out an existing party from the inside, retaining only the skin, so that your voters never see the difference.
You're ignoring the generations of culture, rightly or wrongly, that effected the disruption we're seeing. Trump will go down as a marketing genius that took lemons and made lemonade. Even rodeo clowns have an important job to do. Don't let the tomfoolery deceive you. IMO, Trump mobilized what was called the silent majority in the past. The tea party in WV was mostly the elderly retirees that were pissed off enough to go to meetings rather play bingo at senior centers. Few are internet adept. When the Democrats pulled the slicky in California to stop Saunders they lost the future of the party. Add in the faithful generations of lever pulling Democrats that crossed over and there was a sea change. Blame the media/PR all you want, good or bad, change happened. When Trump stumbled in Alabama, it should be clear that the base that came together to elect Trump, is still active.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Big RR »

Blame the media/PR all you want, good or bad, change happened
And precisely what change would that be? As Trump showed, getting elected, even with your party having majority in both houses of congress, does not equate to getting anything done. the ACA is still in effect, his efforts at immigration reform are going nowhere, tax reform is likely stalled--for a "genius" he sure doesn't seem to know how to get things done, and he apparently isn't willing to learn. No change has been effected, nor is it likely to be, other than the vast majority of the world and our own country seeing what happens when a buffoon is elected president and can't control himself enough to work and play well with others. But then he never really had an agenda--he just wanted to stand and yell "bullshit".

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Lord Jim
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Lord Jim »

Trump mobilized what was called the silent majority in the past....

...there was a sea change.
The numbers don't show Trump mobilizing a "majority" of any sort...

He got about 46% of the popular vote, (approximately 3 million votes fewer than his opponent) and he won the Electoral College by a margin of 120,000 votes spread across three states...

And he was only able to pull off this narrow victory because he had the good fortune to be running against the only major party nominee in the history of modern polling to be more upside-down on the question of "honest and trustworthy" then he himself was...

That don't add up to any kind of a "sea change" in my book...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another GOP Senator Chooses Principle Over Re-election..

Post by Big RR »

Or even a simple paradigm shift

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