It's Manafort and his deputy Gates & now Papadopoulous

[rubato]

What re the odds that Muller has all of those tax return forms we were told we would get to see?

From the evidence to date if Manafort is required to pay his back taxes + penalties + interest he will be completely skint.

And a complete aside. Manafort's daughter on his lack of morals:

'That money we have is blood money'

In a series of texts reviewed by Business Insider that appear to have been sent by Andrea to her sister, Jessica, in March 2015, Andrea said their father had "no moral or legal compass."

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."

"You know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly," she continued, according to the reviewed texts. "As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered."

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-man ... ine-2017-3



yrs,
rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

I am still not sure whether or not Manafort and Gates stand up for the National Anthem with their hands on their hearts. If there is clear evidence that they do (preferably video), then they are a priori good chaps and all charges should be dropped. I am unanimous in that.

[Lord Jim]

Still, so much of this document that is not about Trump is, in many ways, all about Trump. The charges against Manafort and Gates, for instance, mirror what many financial experts have long claimed about the Trump Organization: that they have been at pains to hide money from the IRS, including money from foreign sources; that they have engaged in conspiracies to launder foreign money; that they have made false statements and conspired to hide foreign funds. This is an indictment that should terrify Trump in that it shadows and hints at his own unlawful conduct and nabs two players who might be willing to cooperate to get out of their mess. And Trump can’t claim any of it is a direct attack on him.

I was going to make much the same point...

Mueller dug deep into Manafort's financial dealings, going back nine years, finding criminality without a direct relation to the 2016 campaign and brought charges on that criminal behavior...

There's every reason to believe he is conducting the same sort of in-depth investigation into the financials of Trump and his family...

These indictments are a clear signal of the breadth and depth of Mueller's investigation...

Yes, despite all his triumphal bravado what happened yesterday must have Trump deeply worried...

ETA:

The other thing that should scare the hell out of Trump, particularly with the Papadopoulous piece of what happened yesterday, is the way Mueller has shown how good he and his team are at keeping key elements of their investigation completely under wraps...

Papadopoulous has been cooperating with the investigation since July, but not one word about it ever leaked out...

This has got to have Il Boobce wondering who else might now be working as CIs for the investigation, and how long they've been doing it...

[ex-khobar Andy]

In a sense, and I know this isn't the point, but it is depressing to read the Manafort Gates indictment and realize that this asshole might have managed to get away with it - tens of millions of hidden income - if the Mueller investigation had not taken place. Where was the IRS all this time? And BTW he is of course innocent unless and until he is convicted and gets his 15 years of fame. I hope they leave the next cell free for his orange-haired friend so that the poor man has someone to talk to.

Answer of course - the IRS was cowering in a corner because of popular sentiment, fueled by the Tea Party and their assorted fellow travelers, that the IRS is a force for evil which, like the state in the Stalin playbook, should wither away. Our President is exhibit A through Z in this effort. If he is found to have committed similar feats of money-laundering, for instance, he will of course plead that he was audited every year so how could he possibly be guilty? I might find myself, for once, agreeing with the man.

[Sue U]

By the way, that's Jeff Sessions' Keebler elf head there at the end of the table. Remember when he told All Franken during his Senate confirmation hearing that didn't know nuthin bout birthin no Rooshin collusion babies? The meeting pictured above was the one in which Papadopoulos told all assembled that he could hook them up with the Russkies, including secretly planned meetings with Putin et al and getting the dirt on Hillary's emails. ("Great work!" says Unnamed Campaign Supervisor, whose name is Trump campaign national co-chair Sam Clovis.) So there's some perjury.

Also too and not for nothing, Unnamed High Ranking Campaign Official named Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandoski, longtime aide to Trump, was the one fielding all the emails from Papadopoulos with offers to Meet the Russians and Win Fabulous Prizes.

You have to be wilfully stupid to believe that Trump was not at a minimum made aware of this stuff, if not actively encouraging it. Even if never acted on, the lying to cover up the Russian contacts and the attempts at collusion by the campaign should be sufficient to send a bunch of Trump lackeys to the pokey. It should also be sufficient for impeachment, but the GOP Congress won't do anything about that at least until they get some tax cuts for their super-rich patrons -- if ever. Priorities, you know.

[Darren]

Still, so much of this document that is not about Trump is, in many ways, all about Trump. The charges against Manafort and Gates, for instance, mirror what many financial experts have long claimed about the Trump Organization: that they have been at pains to hide money from the IRS, including money from foreign sources; that they have engaged in conspiracies to launder foreign money; that they have made false statements and conspired to hide foreign funds. This is an indictment that should terrify Trump in that it shadows and hints at his own unlawful conduct and nabs two players who might be willing to cooperate to get out of their mess. And Trump can’t claim any of it is a direct attack on him.

I was going to make much the same point...

Mueller dug deep into Manafort's financial dealings, going back nine years, finding criminality without a direct relation to the 2016 campaign and brought charges on that criminal behavior...

There's every reason to believe he is conducting the same sort of in-depth investigation into the financials of Trump and his family...

These indictments are a clear signal of the breadth and depth of Mueller's investigation...

Yes, despite all his triumphal bravado what happened yesterday must have Trump deeply worried...

ETA:

The other thing that should scare the hell out of Trump, particularly with the Papadopoulous piece of what happened yesterday, is the way Mueller has shown how good he and his team are at keeping key elements of their investigation completely under wraps...

Papadopoulous has been cooperating with the investigation since July, but not one word about it ever leaked out...

This has got to have Il Boobce wondering who else might now be working as CIs for the investigation, and how long they've been doing it...

Manafort's involvement in Ukrainian politics was on the side of the bad guys. Unfortunately what's good or bad there seems to be somewhat of a popularity contest. Much like Russia the oligarchs play a huge part in running the country. When state enterprises were privatized, "special" people came out on top and continue their winning ways. What Manafort walked away with was pocket change. Ukraine is known for corruption at every level. Got stopped for a traffic ticket? Pay the man and go on your way. Manafort's use of a middle man to avoid registering as the agent of a foreign principal left his ass hanging out. I'm not sure if the jury will buy that excuse from either Manafort & Gates or Podesta. Time will tell.

One thing's for sure, whatever lawyer advised Manafort, if he got legal advice, should refund his fee. Same with Podesta and the certification he's banking on.

As for Trump being scared, he can afford much better lawyers and accountants to take care of that stuff. Time will tell again. Based on Trump's performance in office to date, good or bad, he delegates. Unlike other presidents he hasn't been in a rush to fire possibly partisan federal employees. It appears he gives employees one shot at doing the job. If they fail, they're gone. I suspect Trump's legion of lawyers and accountants have bullet proofed his business dealings. So far the IRS hasn't found misdeeds. I'd be willing to bet the IRS has a large staff going through Trump's tax returns. His head on a platter would have been much better than Leona Helmsley's. Again time will tell.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Now they are calling Papadopoulos the 'coffee boy.' That will really get him back onside.

From Politico's smmary of where we are so far:

"The leaders of the Washington office of the campaign didn’t even know who he was until his name appeared in the press. The guy was — he was the coffee boy," Caputo said. "I mean, you might’ve called him a foreign policy analyst, but, in fact, you know, if he was going to wear a wire, all we’d know now is whether he prefers a caramel macchiato over a regular American coffee in conversations with his barista. He had nothing to do with the campaign."

I think it's time to spill the beans, George. The coffee beans.

[Guinevere]

Has any so-called journalist shown the picture Sue has posted and asked for comment specifically on it, from the White House, or any other Trumpanzee mouthpiece?

Pretty sure coffee boys don't get to sit at the (small) table with an United States Senator and a major party nominee for President.

Can someone ID the other folks in the photo?

Merci.

[Crackpot]

Well he obviously wasn't good at his job I only see 4 coffee cups in that picture.

[Lord Jim]

Maybe he was the water boy rather than the coffee boy...

Looks like almost everybody has a bottled water in front of them...

[Lord Jim]

Can someone ID the other folks in the photo?

The best I've been able to find is a copy of the photo from that meeting with last names attached to most of the people at the table:



I got that from an excellent in-depth Vanity Fair analysis of the significance of the Papadopoulos piece of this:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10 ... estigation

[ex-khobar Andy]

More info here in some of these people from an LA Times article, dated April last year. This was a time when Trump was dissing the conventional experts and had selected his own group of mostly non-mainstream folk to advise him on foreign and economic affairs. The paragraph for Papadopoulos reads

George Papadopoulos
Papadopoulos served as a policy and economic advisor to Ben Carson, who notably struggled with domestic and foreign policy issues during his failed presidential run. Before that Papadopoulos was a consultant at a London-based oil and gas company. He’s a director at the London Centre of International Law Practice. In its mission statement, the group views global issues with a “promotion of peace,” which falls into accord with Trump’s noninterventionist approach. He graduated from DePaul University in 2009.

[Darren]

Can someone ID the other folks in the photo?[/q

I got that from an excellent in-depth Vanity Fair analysis of the significance of the Papadopoulos piece of this:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10 ... estigation

Jim, the Vanity Fair article makes sense especially the part about the woman falsely claiming to be related to Putin. Guccifer claimed to have Clinton's emails after hacking her private server. The FBI interviewed Guccifer in Romania. There were reports of Russians looking over Guccifer's shoulder, so to speak, and following him to Clinton's server. The FBI investigation was squelched as mentioned previously. It's looking more like Papadopoulos was contacted by Russian freelancers trying to score by offering dirt on Clinton which were very possibly her emails. If Guccifer couldn't interest the FBI, who else might be interested in buying the dirt/emails? Trump would be seen as an excellent prospect.

The Vanity Fair article is indeed excellent.

From the Vanity Fair article:

"Abramson was surprised by the revelations in the plea document that Papadopoulos claims to have been offered “dirt” on Hillary Clinton from a man he believed to be a Russian professor and a woman who claimed, falsely, to be Vladimir Putin’s niece."

What was the dirt? Most likely it was her emails.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Er no. There has never been a reliable claim that Clinton's e mail server was hacked despite it lacking some security procedures usually present on USG servers. Podesta's e mails were, however, hacked.

[Guinevere]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating, Vanity Fair has been doing a fabulous job investigating and reporting on the Trumpanzees. An annual subscription is something like eight dollars for digital. Sign up and help them continue their great journalism. The piece they did on Kushner in the October issue is worth the price all by itself.

[Darren]

Er no. There has never been a reliable claim that Clinton's e mail server was hacked despite it lacking some security procedures usually present on USG servers. Podesta's e mails were, however, hacked.

For discussion purposes lets table the email discussion. Whatever the supposed dirt was, neither Sessions nor Manafort per the Vanity Fair article were interested in what the Russians were selling. Do you have any basis for determining whether the dirt was coming from Russian officials or free lancers hoping to sucker Trump since as you say there has never been a reliable claim that the server/s were hacked?

My best guess is someone was running a scam on Trump.

[Guinevere]

Can someone ID the other folks in the photo?

The best I've been able to find is a copy of the photo from that meeting with last names attached to most of the people at the table:



I got that from an excellent in-depth Vanity Fair analysis of the significance of the Papadopoulos piece of this:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10 ... estigation

The article notes the excellent work of Seth Abramson, on Twitter, who put some of the pieces together ahead of time. I have been following him for a while now, and I highly recommend you go read the multi-Twitter-post analysis he put out yesterday on the importance of Georgie and his plea. It's very well done.

[Guinevere]

By the way, that's Jeff Sessions' Keebler elf head there at the end of the table. Remember when he told All Franken during his Senate confirmation hearing that didn't know nuthin bout birthin no Rooshin collusion babies? The meeting pictured above was the one in which Papadopoulos told all assembled that he could hook them up with the Russkies, including secretly planned meetings with Putin et al and getting the dirt on Hillary's emails. ("Great work!" says Unnamed Campaign Supervisor, whose name is Trump campaign national co-chair Sam Clovis.) So there's some perjury.

Also too and not for nothing, Unnamed High Ranking Campaign Official named Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandoski, longtime aide to Trump, was the one fielding all the emails from Papadopoulos with offers to Meet the Russians and Win Fabulous Prizes.

You have to be wilfully stupid to believe that Trump was not at a minimum made aware of this stuff, if not actively encouraging it. Even if never acted on, the lying to cover up the Russian contacts and the attempts at collusion by the campaign should be sufficient to send a bunch of Trump lackeys to the pokey. It should also be sufficient for impeachment, but the GOP Congress won't do anything about that at least until they get some tax cuts for their super-rich patrons -- if ever. Priorities, you know.

Clovis, the non-scientist appointed to the Head scientist at the Ag department. He is going to be a next man down, I think. From SethA: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/am ... ry-n816106

[Darren]

If Sessions lied that's a biggie. I wouldn't mind seeing him resign.

[Lord Jim]

I'd rather see him wearing a wire...