Texas Church Massacre

[Sue U]

This is not primarily a "mental health issue." This incident, like virtually all shootings, is a too-many-people-with-too-easy-access-to-too-many-guns issue. Other countries have "mental health issues" (although frankly they are better dealt with in countries that have universal medical care), but they don't have even a small fraction of the number of shootings the U.S. has. The sick gun fetishism of this country is stoked by the NRA and the gun manufacturers, who prey on the ignorance and knee-jerk reaction of "Second Amendment supporters." The cynically induced helplessness of the people and the cowardice of their elected officials is on full display after every one of these mass shootings. These are not unpreventable incidents and it is not "too soon" to "politicize" them into effective action.

[RayThom]

[liberty]

I never said ban, and I wouldn't put that much effort into such trash. But engaging him only stimulates more reprehensible and offensive posting that the rest of us have to wade through.

I can ignore him just fine, but in the whole I'd much prefer to have wes, however misguided, than this lying, evil, crap.

Well, let’s see by your standard I am evil because I say things you don’t want to hear; you don’t have to read it. I am still going to write it, but you don’t have to read it.

You have an odd standard of evil: I am evil even though I have never intentionally, except in self-defense, hurt anyone in my life and I try to do good in the world. I bet you have a lot more money than me, so do you donate money and I am not talking about the animal welfare fund, but something like St. Jude Children’s hospital.

I am evil for saying things you don’t like, but ANTIFA that attack and beat up old trump supporters are not evil. You have a strange idea of what is evil and not evil or at least I have never heard you condemn ANTIFA.

[Joe Guy]

I am evil for saying things you don’t like, but ANTIFA that attack and beat up old trump supporters are not evil. You have a strange idea of what is evil and not evil or at least I have never heard you condemn ANTIFA.

You've always had odd ideas but now you're spreading odder fodder.

[Sue U]

Well, let’s see by your standard I am evil because I say things you don’t want to hear; you don’t have to read it. I am still going to write it, but you don’t have to read it.

Guin can certainly speak for herself (and I'm sure she will), but I don't think she said that you, personally, are evil (although I stand to be corrected), but the drivel you spew around this board is certainly pointlessly vile and frequently racist. I used to chalk it up to sheer ignorance, but since you clearly and steadfastly refuse to learn a goddamn thing despite years of patiently pointing you to, you know, facts and stuff, I have come to the conclusion that you are either willfully stupid or straight-up trolling (and badly). Either way, your posts deserve little to no attention, except as objects of ridicule. You used to talk about how honor was so important to you; if that were actually true, you wouldn't be making the idiotic and vicious assertions of "what liberals think" with which you foul the board.

You have an odd standard of evil: I am evil even though I have never intentionally, except in self-defense, hurt anyone in my life and I try to do good in the world. I bet you have a lot more money than me, so do you donate money and I am not talking about the animal welfare fund, but something like St. Jude Children’s hospital.

I am evil for saying things you don’t like, but ANTIFA that attack and beat up old trump supporters are not evil. You have a strange idea of what is evil and not evil or at least I have never heard you condemn ANTIFA.

Your attempt to derail the issue at hand with whataboutism is poorly played, transparent and lame. You are not good at this and you should stop.

[ex-khobar Andy]

A lot of things to unpack in this topic. I see from the NYT that they are reporting now that Kelley escaped from a mental health facility five years ago. And then -

Later that year, Mr. Kelley pleaded guilty in a military court to repeated assaults on his wife and her son, a toddler, including one that left the boy with a fractured skull. He was sentenced to a year in a Navy prison.

I don't think that we are going to upset UCMJ. But can someone tell me why, for a crime which is civilian in nature such as domestic violence, it is tried in a military court? Of course there are crimes which are purely military in nature, or I can imagine that there are crimes in which the accused's status as a soldier (etc.) might be relevant -- e.g., PTSD -- but if an airman is caught doing 60 in downtown San Diego, does he automatically go before a military judge?

[ex-khobar Andy]

Per CNN:

Seoul (CNN)President Donald Trump said Tuesday "there would have been no difference three days ago" in the deadly Texas shooting if an extreme vetting policy for gun ownership had been in place.

"If you did what you're suggesting there would have been no difference three days ago, and you might not have had that very brave person who happened to have a gun in his truck and shoot him, and hit him and neutralize him," Trump said responding to a question during a joint news conference with South Korean President Moon Jae-in.

I agree with the first part of his sentence: it's not the vetting which will stop a determined from getting hold of a weapon (it might slow him down) but curtailing the ready availability. And to say, as he does in his second part, that it's better to have a policy in place which allows someone to shoot and kill 26 people before a good guy with a gun neutralizes him than a policy in which neither has a gun, is just plain daft.

[datsunaholic]

I don't think that we are going to upset UCMJ. But can someone tell me why, for a crime which is civilian in nature such as domestic violence, it is tried in a military court?

Could be as simple as where it happened. If they were living in on-base housing, for example.

[BoSoxGal]

USCMJ is a complex area of law; military personnel are very often subject to dual sovereignty criminal prosecution, depending on many factors - in this way military personnel don’t have the same absolute protection against double jeopardy that civilians do.

[BoSoxGal]

Heads really need to roll over the failure to include this guy in the NCIC - not that it matters to a devastated Texas town that will never, ever be the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... vin-kelley

[Burning Petard]

I repeat myself. It happened four years ago. No heads will roll, any more than heads will roll for the decision to enlist Bowe Bergdahl in the Army.

[Bicycle Bill]

I am evil for saying things you don’t like, but ANTIFA that attack and beat up old trump supporters are not evil. You have a strange idea of what is evil and not evil or at least I have never heard you condemn ANTIFA.

I'd rather be a member of some shadow organization known as 'the ANTIFA' than be an ignorant asshole who believes that "God, Guts, and Guns Made America Great", "White is Always Right", and that we need to return to the days of robber barons and unfettered capitalism, Tammany Hall-style politics, the marginalization of women and other large segments of the populace, and a total absence of regulations on industry and finance if we're ever going to "Make America Great Again" .... and is perfectly willing to employ whatever means are required — including violence — to achieve these ends.

My understanding is that 'ANTIFA' is a made-up word to refer to people who are opposed to groups that generally espouse far-right-wing attitudes like those usually found in organizations like the Klan or the American Nazi Party, and was created by taking the term 'anti-fascist' and lopping off the last five letters — not an actual organization that had adopted it as their moniker.   By that definition, every one of the soldiers that landed on the beachheads of Normand, Italy, or Iwo Jima were card-carrying members of 'the ANTIFA'.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

Yay! Someone finally gets it right! Another non-asshole point in your favor, BB!

Antifa is not an organized group; it is every person of every walk of life, civilian and military, who detests fascism in any form. The modern tradition of anti-fascist protesting, activism, taking up of arms goes back to post-WWI.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyor ... antifa/amp

Antifa isn’t defined by violent college protests; it’s people like me, and ultimately push come to shove, I hope it includes people like you, too.

[rubato]

The word "antifa" has appeared only very recently and I cannot tell what actual living group of people it refers to, if it does, or if it is like Rush Limbaugh's use of the words "liberal" and "feminist" which refer only to fictional groups of people.

The word is often associated with the group formerly known as "anarchists" who are a group of people who show up to demonstrations just to stir shit and cause vandalism but have no relationship to liberals, leftists &c. All moral people are anti-fascist but don't deserve to be associated with "antifa"


yrs,
rubato

[dales]

right on, rube!

[BoSoxGal]

Clearly neither of you read the article I linked and you’d prefer living in your own reality.

[dales]

Better than living in your reality!

[Jarlaxle]

Heads really need to roll over the failure to include this guy in the NCIC - not that it matters to a devastated Texas town that will never, ever be the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... vin-kelley

Everyone involved should be court martialled as accessories before the fact to murder.

[Econoline]

[Guinevere]

Perfect. But horrifyingly sad.