I'm going to be sick.

[datsunaholic]

Very sad. Without forward movement you're doomed.

You sound like my former counselor. Telling me what I already know but not providing me with a viable path to change.

In the case of my counselor, it was about having faith in ones self and not worrying about the past or the future.

Well, easy enough for someone who already doesn't care about the future and wants to forget their past. That's not me.

I am extremely adverse to change. Change is something that is forced upon me, not something that I take on willingly. For me change causes ulcer-inducing anxiety. So for me to accept change, I have to understand the pros and cons, see the path and the desired outcome. I take nothing on faith or on Faith. My first counselor figured that out. That I needed a solid, fact-based reason behind everything. My second counselor, well, he was a 12-stepper and his faith based methods made me defensive. I don't understand why. Oh, he would explain things in the worst possible scenario situations, but that was way past the horizon. Like everyone else he told me to structure my life, and gave pointers. But the problem is I treat them like school assignments to be turned in. If I don't have anyone to "grade" it, I don't bother doing it if I don't see the point. This is not the output of a normal mind is what I've been led to believe.

It didn't used to be this hard. But that's because I had structure. Structure imposed on my by someone else- my parents, my teachers, my superior officers in the Navy, my bosses at work. I don't have that right now. My structure is Go to the museum Tues and Thurs, take out the trash Sunday night. Pay the bills when they come in. Fix the car when it breaks. That's it. Everything else is floundering around trying to find the next person to provide that structure.

So, yes, it's sad. I've been here before and I will be here again. I end up in the same place every time because I chose not to change. I turn to strangers to try and find some meaning in it because I can't find it on my own.

If that's a rambling manifesto of a diseased mind, well, that's what it is.

[ex-khobar Andy]

I'm afraid to ask.

A very conservative Swiss watch company decided they needed to boost sales, so they turned to a TV advertising company. “Show us what you can do. We want something that emphasizes the technical excellence of our movements, the multiple jeweled bearings, the microsecond accuracy, the visibility in low light, the durability of the strap. Technical excellence is what we’re known for.” The ad agency turned to their only available director, who said: “Fuck that. I’m gonna do it the way I want.” So she does this beautiful arty farty ad with northern lights and surfing and raccoons and whimsical gossamers of mist and so on. The surfer wearing the watch has these almost gorilla-like hairy arms. The ad agency is appalled: “I don’t think this will fly.” They show it to the client. “For fuck’s sake, get rid of the hairy arms!” The director shoots the surfing bit again, and everyone is happy.

[RayThom]

... You sound like my former counselor. Telling me what I already know but not providing me with a viable path to change... So, yes, it's sad. I've been here before and I will be here again. I end up in the same place every time because I chose not to change. I turn to strangers to try and find some meaning in it because I can't find it on my own... If that's a rambling manifesto of a diseased mind, well, that's what it is.

It's up to you to make the game changing moves. No one, at this point and maybe never, is going to take you by the hand and show you how to implement what you already know. Shoveling sand against the tide. How silly would that be?

Dats, stare into the mirror. What you see is what you are now. Stare into the mirror when you're 50, or 60, or 70, and that person is destine to be exactly the same. Yes, you'll be greyer, and more weathered, but you'll still be wondering why those around you abandoned you decades ago. Keep in mind, when you die you won't be a blip on their radar.

And all you had to do was something. It's you... period.

[datsunaholic]

And all you had to do was something. It's you... period.

Of course it's me. Again, I already know that.

You seem to think I already know the answer on how to change that. I don't. That's why I ask. I ask lots of people. And most look at me like I have 2 heads and 3 noses. Like the answer is just something that comes by instinct. You just do it. But see, I don't just do it. I never have.

You don't have my issues, so I understand why you don't see life the way I do. You don't spend 20 minutes hyperventilating in the parking lot of the new barber shop because you're too nervous to walk in the door. You don't have to psyche yourself out to make a simple phone call. I barely function on a social level. There were times I functioned better than others. I still was a nervous wreck but I had at least some support structure to help me until I was confident enough to run solo. The combination of my Dad passing away and my losing my job yanked that support structure out. Up to that point I had lived by doing what other people told me what to do. I didn't set goals for myself. And I didn't know what my purpose in life was. Really, my only idea was to slog through my job until I could retire, and take whatever time I had left after to travel the world. Explore. See things. Preferably with someone, but that seems entirely out of the cards. Not much of a goal there, huh? Work 'til 70, then play? Not a whole lot of purpose in that.

I still don't know. Some people find their purpose in their family- creating and providing for their children. Others seek knowledge, or teach. Some people live to help others. For some, it's control. I don't have any of those things. I don't do what's expected of me, I do what I'm told to do. And I don't know how to break that cycle. There's great comfort in not being in charge, and there is very little in my life where I've ever felt I was in control.

[rubato]

The OP in this thread represents an interesting conundrum. You, to a first blush, have two choices to make. The first is that you can engage with this person, show him respect as an individual while being clear about your disapproval of his values. Or you can shun this person as being 'beyond redemption' an evil force in society. The first choice preserves the opportunity to persuade him to be a better and different person in the future (there was an NPR story about a black man who befriended racists and 'converted' many of them to being anti-racist). The second choice communicates your disapproval to the larger community but throws away any chance of changing hearts and minds. Which is right?


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Of course it's me. Again, I already know that.

You seem to think I already know the answer on how to change that. I don't. That's why I ask. I ask lots of people. And most look at me like I have 2 heads and 3 noses. Like the answer is just something that comes by instinct. You just do it. But see, I don't just do it. I never have.

You don't have my issues, so I understand why you don't see life the way I do. You don't spend 20 minutes hyperventilating in the parking lot of the new barber shop because you're too nervous to walk in the door. You don't have to psyche yourself out to make a simple phone call. I barely function on a social level. There were times I functioned better than others. I still was a nervous wreck but I had at least some support structure to help me until I was confident enough to run solo. The combination of my Dad passing away and my losing my job yanked that support structure out. Up to that point I had lived by doing what other people told me what to do. I didn't set goals for myself. And I didn't know what my purpose in life was. Really, my only idea was to slog through my job until I could retire, and take whatever time I had left after to travel the world. Explore. See things. Preferably with someone, but that seems entirely out of the cards. Not much of a goal there, huh? Work 'til 70, then play? Not a whole lot of purpose in that.

I still don't know. Some people find their purpose in their family- creating and providing for their children. Others seek knowledge, or teach. Some people live to help others. For some, it's control. I don't have any of those things. I don't do what's expected of me, I do what I'm told to do. And I don't know how to break that cycle. There's great comfort in not being in charge, and there is very little in my life where I've ever felt I was in control.

I'm sorry. You have a tough life and there aren't a lot of people who will 'get it'. Finding purpose and meaning in life is a very hard problem for some and there is no way to trivialize that. I don't know if it helps or not but I see existence as having expanding circles around myself where the innermost circle of obligation is to take care of myself so I am not a burden on family and society, when I can do that my obligation is to help and protect my family, if that is done my obligation is to my friends and my community, then to the larger world. Dignity and meaning is to be had in fulfilling what you can in whatever circle you are engaged with. Good luck to you. And don't reject the possibility of love.

Of all forms of caution, caution in love is perhaps the most fatal to true happiness.
Bertrand Russell,

yrs,
rubato