She's Back

[Lord Jim]

as for fundraising, what sort of fundraising?

Well, fundraising for any fund the "tribal leaders" want to raise money for...

The more people you allow to claim membership in your group, the more people you can put the arm on for contributions...

The leaders of the Cherokee Nation would hardly alone in using that technique...

as for Lemon, might he now be the convert in the choir?

Sorry, not buying that...

I don't believe for a moment that Lemon ever agreed with Trump; I'm sure the attitude he's exhibiting now is much more in line with what his actual views have been all along...

Lemon is a smart, ambitious guy who, (and as I said, he had a lot of company when it came to Trump) was willing to compromise his journalistic integrity in order to boost his career...

He no longer feels the need to do that, so he's not doing it, but that doesn't change the fact that he did do it...

[Joe Guy]

He thought he was being funny.

Of course he did; and if he called Obama Sambo, or used another name for another ethnicity, he probably would have thought he was being funny as well--so what? Being funny (even when actual) is not an excuse for being a jerk.

I didn't say Trump wasn't being a jerk. I've never heard anyone else use the name Pocahontas to insult a Native American. Have you?

If Elizabeth Warren went to a costume party dressed as Pocahontas, would anyone object and if so, why?

[Econoline]

Interesting sidelight: Trump for decades lied about his own heritage, claiming his family was Swedish instead of German. (Source)

(The link goes to a Boston Globe story that's hidden behind a paywall, but this tweet shows the relevant part of the story, as an image [shown below])

[Lord Jim]

Trump for decades lied about his own heritage,

Well now there's a shock...

Maybe someday, somebody, somewhere, will find something Trump hasn't lied about...

That would be truly "stop the presses" newsworthy...

We live in a world now where if a reporter could say, "The President issued a statement today, and not one single thing he said was false" it would be worthy of a "breaking news alert"...

[Big RR]

I didn't say Trump wasn't being a jerk. I've never heard anyone else use the name Pocahontas to insult a Native American. Have you?

I recall a movie once where the name was used in a derogatory way--a young native American woman was told something like "Hey Pocahontas, cut it out"; I don't recall the name, but it was a western. And as I said before, Chief has been used as a derogatory name for native American men many times--as in "No more firewater for you chief". I see it as the same thing.

[Burning Petard]

Advantage to the Cherokee Nation for claiming as many members as possible? Not IMNSHO. Ever notice the presence of oil wells in Oklahoma? Many of them are on tribal lands. The tribe gets royalties. The royalties are distributed among the members of the tribe. More members, smaller individual check.

By the bye, this has been a great boondoggle for the Department of the Interior. That government agency has lied about the royalties for generations. So bad that several tribes have gone to federal courts for an accounting. Many times the court has told the Interior Department to submit an audit. The ID replies with various excuses (resembling Trump's campaign statements about making public his tax returns). The Department has claimed various delays including, 'Gee, we can't find any records' until federal courts have even issued contempt citations against the Department. Nothing happens. No audit report. Sort of reminds me of the Executive department's response to SCOTUS back when another Cherokee case came before it and President Jackson said SCOTUS has made their decision, let them enforce it, and ignored SCOTUS.

snailgate

[RayThom]

... I recall a movie once where the name was used in a derogatory way--a young native American woman was told something like "Hey Pocahontas, cut it out"; I don't recall the name, but it was a western...

Pocahontas in Hollywood:
http://www.imdb.com/search/text?realm=t ... Pocahontas

[MGMcAnick]

is like calling a native American tonto

Not that Jay Silverheels (AKA Harold J. Smith) or his Tonto character on the Lone Ranger was Hispanic or at all foolish, but tonto translates from Spanish as FOOL. Did the Loan Ranger writers know that?

Was Drumpf's remark racist? Probably not, but I think we can call him Tonto.

BTW, Mrs. Mc is 1/32 Cherokee, just like Elizabeth Warren, not that either look at all native. I understand that one must be able to claim 1/8 native American to gain any affirmative action perks. Hers is largely diluted by German ancestry on both sides. Her family has researched the lineage, even to the point of scouring the records at the Cherokee Nation headquarters in Tahlequah Oklahoma. She took our granddaughter there for a day trip last summer. The folks running the Cherokee center are very appreciative of any interest in what they have to teach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahlequah,_Oklahoma

[Econoline]

Here ya go, Joe. Andy Borowitz 'splains it all:

“Pocahontas” Not a Racial Slur, Says Prominent White Expert

• 

[Joe Guy]

Good one, Econoline. It also needs to be pointed out that if Pocahontas is a racial slur, it's the Native Americans' fault. They named her, not us.

[Econoline]

As usual, Trump managed to make everything about himself. For the record, the men he was supposed to be honoring were Fleming Begaye Sr., Thomas Begay, and Peter MacDonald. Begaye is 97, Begay is 91, and MacDonald is 90; they are the only 3 of the 13 still-living Navajo Code Talkers who were in good enough health to make the trip to Washington. They are true war heroes, and deserve to have their names in the news story.


Left to right: Fleming Begaye Sr. (who got cropped out of most of the news photos because he's seated in a wheelchair), Thomas Begay, and Peter MacDonald




* * * * * * * * * *

ETA: Pocahontas? Matoaka? Matoax? Amonute? Rebecca?

[liberty]

Could someone explain how President Schlump's Pocahontas statement was "racist"? I'm watching CNN now and Don Lemon, Anderson Cooper and all of the panelists (other than Trumpists) are calling it a racial remark.

I think it was extremely stupid but I don't understand how President Gump was being racist. Maybe liberty would know....

It is not racist. In case someone needs a refresher, racism is the belief that one race is superior or inferior to another. I doubt many people even believe it anymore, there is too much evidence to the contrary.

It is not racist to make fun of someone’s claim to an ethnicity that is not theirs.

I don’t know enough about the incident to say anything else.

[Lord Jim]

As usual, Trump managed to make everything about himself. For the record, the men he was supposed to be honoring were Fleming Begaye Sr., Thomas Begay, and Peter MacDonald. Begaye is 97, Begay is 91, and MacDonald is 90; they are the only 3 of the 13 still-living Navajo Code Talkers who were in good enough health to make the trip to Washington. They are true war heroes, and deserve to have their names in the news story.

Well, there's one thing we can all agree on...

[Big RR]

Not that Jay Silverheels (AKA Harold J. Smith) or his Tonto character on the Lone Ranger was Hispanic or at all foolish, but tonto translates from Spanish as FOOL. Did the Loan Ranger writers know that?

I'd bet they did; just as I'd bet they knew the Kimosabee kind of sounds like "quien no sabe", or the man who no one knows.

and Jim, I can't argue with that.

[liberty]

Not that Jay Silverheels (AKA Harold J. Smith) or his Tonto character on the Lone Ranger was Hispanic or at all foolish, but tonto translates from Spanish as FOOL. Did the Loan Ranger writers know that?

I'd bet they did; just as I'd bet they knew the Kimosabee kind of sounds like "quien no sabe", or the man who no one knows.

and Jim, I can't argue with that.

I doubt it Big. I am sure they were English speakers and I doubt they would have done that much research. Have you watched the “ Lone Ranger” lately; the things I thought were cool as a kid I now see as down- right silly.

[Big RR]

I don't know where it came from, the the kimosabe/quien no sabe connection is to strong to just be coincidental.

[rubato]

Trump used the term as a racial derogator which makes it prima facie a racist comment. It can only exist as a racial derogator and he can only make the comment if Trump believes himself better than native Americans and entitled to use their cultural icons as insults. Warren was told she was part Cherokee and believed what she was told. She was proud of this connection and broadcast it herself but apparently it was "untrue": The larger fact is that people who are not forced by the larger society into racial categories are permitted to make as much or as little of their genetic or cultural heritage as they wish, that is how you can tell who the racially and culturally oppressed are. Even is she has no lineal genetic connection her greatness of heart in calling them brothers and sisters is to be commended not condemned.

When they are acting in their financial self-interest tribes restrict tribal membership so that funds from mineral rights and gaming are divided fewer ways. Only an ignoramus would think that expanding tribal membership was in their material interest.

yrs,
rubato

[Econoline]

It is not racist.

RIIIIIGHT. Didn't I already post this story? Oh yeah, here it is, right here:

“Pocahontas” Not a Racial Slur, Says Prominent White Expert

• 

I don’t know enough about the incident to say anything else.

FTFY

[liberty]

“Senator, I knew John Kennedy, John Kennedy was a friend of mine. Sire, you are no John Kennedy.”

Senator, I know Pocahontas from history as a person of great courage. Lady you are no Pocahontas.

Well, let see, no it is not racist to refer to a historical person.

[Sue U]

“Senator, I knew John Kennedy, John Kennedy was a friend of mine. Sire, you are no John Kennedy.”

Senator, I know Pocahontas from history as a person of great courage. Lady you are no Pocahontas.

Well, let see, no it is not racist to refer to a historical person.

To refer to the historical person who was an American Indian by her name is not racist. To call someone else "Pocahantas" because she is of American Indian descent is racist. (And that's not even getting into the whole racist business of using a single identifier to lump all indigenous American peoples together.) Is that clear enough for you?