How much is a Euro (or Bitcoin) worth in Dollars"

[Burning Petard]

I just was reading the US Constitution again. Seems like every time I do, I spot something I have not noticed before. This time it was the powers of congress:

" To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;"

So when did congress abandon this and just let the value of foreign coin float on an unregulated (as far as I can tell) free market? It fluctuates dally and futures are traded just like the value of pork bellies or Amazon or Apple common stock.

snailgate

[Guinevere]

Pretty sure the U.S. Government doesn't recognize bitcoin as legal tender. it is nothing more than a commodity, which people can trade as they wish.

[RayThom]

At the moment 1 bitcoin is worth $10,000. I can't help but feel a bubble is about to break but I suppose that's why I was never really big on investing in anything but mutual funds. The bubble was always on my horizon. "Uncle Warren" would be so disappointed with my skittish financial behavior.

Euros, dollars, bitcoins -- if it's held in an account, it's all virtual money. For the average Joe, one key stroke from a half-assed hacker and (((POOF!))) it's gone forever.

[ex-khobar Andy]

I read yesterday that the Winkelvi (remember them?) are now worth $1 billion between them because they invested $11 million of Zuckerberg's money in Bitcoin. In other news, tulip bulbs are becoming very expensive at my local Home Depot. Maybe I should lay in a few. After all if the value collapses I can always use them as a substitute for shallots in my spaghetti bolognaise recipe.

ETA - that was a joke! Do not try this at home! Do not eat tulip bulbs!

[rubato]

The USD retains value because the US Government agrees to accept it in exchange for taxes, tariffs, and fees. Bitcoin retains value solely on the 'greater fool' theory and vanishes thereafter.

yrs,
rubato

[Burning Petard]

Again, How does congress regulate the value of Australian Dollars, Mexican Pesos, English Pounds?

snailgate

[MajGenl.Meade]

It doesn't. It refers to coins inside the USA - not to paper money or notional money or even coins in use in Australia or Greece.

Are you overlooking the purpose of the clause, perhaps? In the 18th century, foreign coins circulated freely in Britain's American colonies - British coins, French coins, Spanish coins in particular all had purchasing value. This value historically had a relationship to the preciousness of the metals used in the coins.

Under the Articles of Confederation, states were initially free to set whatever value they liked on foreign coinage in circulation in the US. The various states often issued debased domestic coinage and set different values on foreign coins.

The Constitution improved upon that by asserting that only the central government, not state governments, could (a) produce US coins and (b) place a par value on the foreign coins still valid for purchasing goods etc.

Nowadays, you can't travel to Kent, Ohio and hand over British pound coins at the local Sheetz and expect them to give you a Slurpee and change (in US coins).

You can't even go to a bank with a few nice English pound coins and expect them to be converted to US money.

[Big RR]

actually, this power was extended in the early 1800s to permit printing of federal notes.

You can't even go to a bank with a few nice English pound coins and expect them to be converted to US money.

really? Every time I traveled I could exchange dollars for foreign currency, and vice versa, at banks in the US. And may private businesses accept foreign money (especially those in areas bordering Canada, likewise for Canadian businesses accepting US dollars) at whatever exchange rates they choose.

the purchasing values of 18yh and 19th century coins were not based on the exchange rate per se, but on the value of the precious metals contained therein (and congress set the rates on that until the early 1900s); indeed, even bills could be redeemed in precious metals (remember silver certificates?). When the Federal Reserve Act passed and we eventually went off the gold standard, the intrinsic value of money was lost (our coins now contain precious little silver, if any, and the only gold coins are commemorative ones--I think this is tru of coinage in most, if not all, of the world) and the banking system permits the exchange rates to float--this was a power congress ceded to the Federal Reserve.

[Burning Petard]

MajGenl Sir, you got me. I did indeed forget the media of exchange in America at the beginning of the 19th Century was varied. I did not think of the Thaler, a Bohemian siver coin of near universal acceptance for centuries in Western economies.

However, back when I was in Michigan it was not uncommon to get Canadian pennies, dimes in change at local retailers. They were accepted one-for-one even though they did not work in vending machines. Even now, here in Delaware, once in a while a Canadian penny with show up in my coin purse.

By the way, one can still get current issue dimes and quarters made with the nearly pure silver alloy from the US Mint.

snailgate

[Big RR]

Yes, you can get silver coins (and gold and platinum too as I recall), but they are not intended to be used as currency (although I guess you could use them if you wanted to, you'd just be trading them at a lot less than you paid for them).

[ex-khobar Andy]

The Major's point was about the UK pound coin - even if you can find a bank who will do foreign currency beyond Canadian and Mexican, they deal only with paper currency.

The Marie Therese Thaler (I have one somewhere) was in use in the Arab world until well into the 20th Century. Regardless of when a coin was minted, it carries 1780 as its date. Thal = valley in German (e.g., Neanderthal is a denizen of the Neanderthal Valley) and is the etymological source of the word dollar.

[Big RR]

actually, my bank did dollars to Euros and gave me bills and coins since it is rare to get an exact bill for bill exchange. Likewise, there are currency exchangers in many cities which set their own exchange rates, usually different from the published ones.

[rubato]

Banks will exchange for foreign currency although it can't be profitable for the small amounts travelers bring home. It must be a vestigial activity or a courtesy. Going the other direction it is by prearrangement, they don't keep much foreign currency in local banks.

Other than airports and other ports of entry I can't think of anyplace currency exchanges make sense. And even there the transition to electronic payment must be hurting traffic.

Yrs,
Rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

actually, my bank did dollars to Euros and gave me bills and coins since it is rare to get an exact bill for bill exchange. Likewise, there are currency exchangers in many cities which set their own exchange rates, usually different from the published ones.

I have never been given foreign coins by a bank. If you can find a US bank who will give you euros for dollars, they will give you the euros in paper money and refund you the US in coinage for the difference. So if you hand over $100 which will get you EUR 84.8, they will give you EUR 80 (because the lowest paper denomination is EUR 5) plus the EUR 4.8 difference as a dollar refund = $5.66. (I am ignoring the bank's cut here.) When I used to travel a lot I lived in Buffalo: and the banks that advertised that they did foreign exchange could not handle anything except Canadian dollars without prior arrangement. Thank god for ATMs which was usually my first stop in a foreign country because every ATM I have ever used has offered me English as an option.

[Bicycle Bill]

actually, this power was extended in the early 1800s to permit printing of federal notes.

You can't even go to a bank with a few nice English pound coins and expect them to be converted to US money.

really? Every time I traveled I could exchange dollars for foreign currency, and vice versa, at banks in the US. And may private businesses accept foreign money (especially those in areas bordering Canada, likewise for Canadian businesses accepting US dollars) at whatever exchange rates they choose.

Nowadays, apparently, it ain't necessarily so.  Over the years, as I came across Canadian coins in my pocket change, I tossed 'em into an empty Mason jar.  Counted it up the other day and found I had about $25, face value (mostly in pennies, nickels, and dimes).  So I took jar and all over to my local Wells Fargo office (where I have my accounts and do my banking), along with a half-gallon pickle jar full of US pennies, to see if I could cash them in.  They flatly refused to exchange the Canadian money, even at the current 78% exchange rate ($1 Canadian = 78¢ US), because they were coins, not paper currency.  They also refused to take the US coins unless they were rolled.

Which took me by surprise.  Last time I took rolls of coins in to the bank, I stood there and waited while they opened each and every one of those rolls and ran them through an automatic coin sorter/counter anyway.

-"BB"-

[RayThom]

... They flatly refused to exchange the Canadian money, even at the current 78% exchange rate ($1 Canadian = 78¢ US), because they were coins, not paper currency.  They also refused to take the US coins unless they were rolled..."

IIRC, I saw a FOX News piece that said this is all Obama's fault. However, if it were a jar of loose kopecks you'd be fine.

[rubato]

Every time I've exchanged money they have refused coins. That is why there are huge donation bins at international airports so you can shed all the change you were otherwise stuck with. I usually just kept the Euros in hand for the next trip or sold them to a friend who was going to Europe.

Excess change I take to the coinstar machine at the grocery store and pay the fee.

yrs,
rubato

[Econoline]

And now....CryptoKitties???????

[RayThom]

And now...CryptoKitties???????

Who cleans the CryptoLitter Box? I wonder what that smells like?

[Econoline]

Having had extensive experience with kitties, I have to say that most of them are already pretty crypto, even without blockchains and other cyberthingees.

As for the CryptoLitter, I wouldn't worry; being crypto, obvs it'll be hidden somewhere in the neighbor's back yard.