Sexual Harassment

[Joe Guy]

The man breathes a sigh of relief and then a wave of terror overcomes him when there's a loud banging on the door and he remembers that it was his wife that he just pushed out the door.

[Bicycle Bill]

Nowadays, the way any prominent, powerful, or potentially wealthy man, regardless of age. living or not, seems to have become a target for #MeToo and Time's Up, it's only a matter of time before someone brings up (makes up?) some accusation against Walter Cronkite, Captain Kangaroo, or Mr. Rogers.

Yet others, despite their known and/or verifiable peccadilloes and actions, get a free pass.  Woody Allen and Donald 'Grab 'Em By The Pussy' Trump, I'm looking at YOU!

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

BB--Trump has implicated himself by his own big mouth; but Allen has repeatedly denied the charges leveled by his adopted daughter Dylan (and suggested they were manufactured by her mother, which would not be surprising given the circumstances surrounding their split), and other than her claims, there has been nothing further. The only other allegation I have heard is that Mariel Hemingway said he asked her to accompany him to Paris when she was 18, and she turned him down. Have there been other allegations?

Allen could well be a jerk, but I see no "verifiable peccadillos" and the two hardly belong in the same sentence IMHO, unless there is a tape of Allen saying he grabbed some actresses by the ...

Edited to add: FWIW, I am not trying to say that Allen is or is not guilty of what has been alleged--the allegations are public and we all can form our own opinions based on whatever evidence we choose. However, I only wished to point out that, unlike most who have been implicated as harassers, they either have been implicated by many different women (often with documented timelines) or (like Trump) been convicted by their big mouths--neither is the case for Allen SFAIK. He is a strange guy who behaves oddly, but I don't see it as the same thing.

[Burning Petard]

Mr. Rogers? Old news. Lots of rumors about why he was not an active minister beyond his tv show.

snailgate

[Gob]

French actor Catherine Deneuve was one of about 100 female French writers, performers and academics who have written an open letter rejecting the "puritanism" that has emerged since the Harvey Weinstein scandal.

The letter appeared in Le Monde on Monday, one day after Hollywood's heavyweights rallied together at the Golden Globes, many of whom dressed in black to mark solidarity with the #metoo movement.

Deneuve and the women in the letter say gallantry is not "macho aggression" and that the men who were forced to resign for having "touched a knee, tried to steal a kiss, talked about "intimate" things at a professional dinner" are victims.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/01/10/cath ... o-movement

[Joe Guy]

Be careful what links you post here, Gob. It might be taken as sexual harassment.

[Guinevere]

BigRR, are you for real?

“and suggested they were manufactured by her mother, which would not be surprising given the circumstances surrounding their split”

Because they had an ugly divorce the woman lied? After everything that’s come out in the last six months you’re still resorting to the tired old line that women lie about rape and sexual assault to get an advantage in divorce proceedings? Have you ever read Dylan’s account? She has been crystal clear what happened and how her father assaulted her. But yeah, let’s not believe the women. Even though we believe her brother and his reporting on Weinstein. Ever wonder why he was so persistent in digging into Weinstein? Woody Allen is scum. His children understand that. Why the press refuses to believe the same is baffling.

[Scooter]

Deneuve, in what has become a pattern, saw an opportunity to play the contrarian feminist, who should be sufficiently strong and self-assured to refuse to feel threatened when men act like pigs. I am not unconcerned about the prospect that a continuing torrent of accusations could shield a few false ones, or that it could degenerate into a witchhunt that gives rise to a new Hollywood blacklist. Deneuve could have warned against rushing to judgment and ending the careers of potentially innocent men, without feeling the need to label the accusers as man haters, or to downplay the severity of what they experienced by creating a false dichotomy whereby anything that isn't rape is innocent flirtation or gallantry.

[Big RR]

Guin--I am most definitely for real; indeed I have seen both women and men lie (and coach their children to lie) in the family court about a number of things (including sexual abuse). Is Dylan lying here? I do not know. Is Allen lying? I do not know. Did Farrow coach Dylan to lie? I do not know. Are any (or even all) of those things within the realm of possibility? Certainly, at least from my experience; and all that's come out in the last 6 months does not change that. As I said, I am not defending Allen or saying he did or didn't do anything--the allegations are public and anyone who wants to can read the public accounts and form their own opinions. My opinion is that I haven't seen enough to draw and opinion one way or the other.

Indeed, I do not know what happened and I have not read enough to form an opinion. You apparently have, and that's fine (and I do not doubt your sincerity or even your "reality" in your position). And why my belief or disbelief (and I have no expressed an opinion as to either) of the veracity of what Dylan says (or said) should affect my view of the veracity of what her brother said is clearly beyond me. What I did say to Bicycle Bill (which was the reason for my post), is that I see Allen in a very different position from Trump (who bragged about his sexual abuse) or even guys like Weinstein and Cosby who did the same thing over and over again.

If not automatically jumping on the bandwagon every time a single allegation is raised makes me somehow not "for real", that's fine. My not calling Woody Allen "scum" does not make me any less of a person who cares about sexual abuse and wants to make the guilty pay for it, anymore than your calling him "scum" makes you a more powerful supporter of that position.

[BoSoxGal]

It’s very easy for me to believe Dylan Farrow because Woody fucked around with and married another of his adult lover’s adopted daughters - no doubt forming an attraction to her long before he acted on it. He’s very likely a pedophile as well as a hebephile - that he is the latter is an undeniable fact. He’s defended the men being called out in the #metoo movement.

His scumminess is unquestionable, IMNSHO.

[Big RR]

He’s very likely a pedophile as well as a hebephile - that he is the latter is an undeniable fact. He’s defended the men being called out in the #metoo movement.

Perhaps, but then so far as I know he is still with Sun Yi even though she is close to 50, which is quite uncharacteristic of either pedophiles or hebephiles (who routinely dump their older lovers for new child or adolescent models). Nor have I heard of any other accusations of targeting children or adolescents, which would also be characteristic of both. Whatever his mental condition, I don't think it is a simple as a label; I wouldn't doubt that he is (or was) attracted to adolescent girls (Sun Yi and Mariel Hemingway show that--but attraction and acting on it are two different things), but I would think that could be true of many men (at least if we look who are the most popular actresses, singers, etc.--most are very young, or appear to be so); he also is currently with a middle age wife (not all that common for men of his notoriety and wealth). He's a strange guy, but not a textbook case of anything so far I I have seen.

As for his defense of the men being called out, I have neither seen nor read about it, so I will not comment.

[rubato]

It is striking that there is only one accusation. And he has been with Soon Yi for 25 years, 20 married.

yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

In case anyone is still confused about those "grey areas" that may or may not be sexual harassment:

[Bicycle Bill]

Sexual assault is one thing and I don't think anyone anywhere will stand up and say that it's OK.  But so-called sexual harassment, as in "she was acting creepy" or "he made me feel uncomfortable", is like beauty, art, or pornography — all in the eye of the beholder.  Something like "You look nice in that outfit" or "I like what you've done with your hair" — to one person this is just a passing remark or, at worst, an empty compliment; but another person, looking to pick a fight, will take it as a 'come-on' or a 'pickup line' and blow it way out of perspective.

Just how the fuck is someone supposed to know?

-"BB"-

[Scooter]

I cannot think of a single woman I have ever met who has reacted negatively to a singular compliment about her appearance, but if in doubt, ask yourself how a man would take such a compliment if you directed it at him. If you would feel weird making it, or you fear he would think you were coming on to him for doing so, then why would you offer it to a woman if your motives were completely innocent?

[Scooter]

Another good rule of thumb - would you say the same thing to your mother? If not, why would you imagine it would be appropriate to say to other women in your workplace?

[ex-khobar Andy]

Another good rule of thumb - would you say the same thing to your mother? If not, why would you imagine it would be appropriate to say to other women in your workplace?

Agreed but the converse of course is not true: just because it's OK to say it to your mother does not make it necessarily appropriate for the workplace.

Context is everything. Cathy was planning a July wedding and she lost over 100 pounds by my visual estimate. The day before she was due to leave for Las Vegas she was in my office for something. "Cathy," I said. "I'm not blind and I'm not stupid. You look great." I don't work there any more but she's a friend for life.

[RayThom]

Justin Trudeau Deploys Squads Of Royal Mounties Across Canada To Arrest Anyone Saying ‘Mankind’
http://babylonbee.com/news/justin-trude ... g-mankind/

[Big RR]

you can't make these things up. Oh wait, someone can; we all need a laugh.

eta: The funny thing is, until I googled the source, I wasn't sure if it was satire or a post from someone posting it as true; it wouldn't surprise me if there were people who believed that.

[BoSoxGal]

Isn’t it humankind? Peoplekind is dumb.