Lance got off cheap. I can hear him now, "do you want fries with that?" Lets all hope this scourge on all sports just fades away.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... story.html
...when first we practice to deceive!
...when first we practice to deceive!
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
I would guess that the government's case had some problems, chiefly, proving damages and proving that the USPS was so naive as to not understand how prevalent doping was in cycling. On the first issue, the USPS went for a wild ride that provided front page/prime coverage every day for the each of the tours it sponsored -- they got more than they could have hoped for in marketing exposure. And on the second point:
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Bicycle Bill
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
For the umpteenth time, the USPS is not now funded by federal tax monies, was not then funded by federal tax monies, or — for the record — has the USPS been funded by federal tax monies since roughly 1972, with this one sole exception. Congress does give the Postal Service $100 million a year to compensate the agency for revenue loss by providing, at congressional direction (emphasis mine), free mailing privileges to blind people and overseas voters (not to mention the franking privilege enjoyed at both the federal and state level by the legislators themselves), a congressional report noted. The $100 million is less than one percent of the Postal Service’s annual budget.
Armstrong admitted he doped, and one could, if one wanted to, argue that this was an example of fraud because money was accepted while failing to live up to live up to every term, whether spelled out or merely implied, in the sponsorship contract.
But re-read that first paragraph. Government money WAS NOT INVOLVED!!! I'm thinking it was somebody with a hard-on against Lance who then found a way to confuse the issue and get the US government, with all its resources, to fight the battle for them. My logical suspect is one Travis Tygart, now the CEO/then the Director of Legal Affairs of the Johnny-come-lately United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA began operations on October 1, 2000), who saw in Armstrong a high-profile cause célèbre that could immediately make his new organization relevant.
-"BB"-
Armstrong admitted he doped, and one could, if one wanted to, argue that this was an example of fraud because money was accepted while failing to live up to live up to every term, whether spelled out or merely implied, in the sponsorship contract.
But re-read that first paragraph. Government money WAS NOT INVOLVED!!! I'm thinking it was somebody with a hard-on against Lance who then found a way to confuse the issue and get the US government, with all its resources, to fight the battle for them. My logical suspect is one Travis Tygart, now the CEO/then the Director of Legal Affairs of the Johnny-come-lately United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA began operations on October 1, 2000), who saw in Armstrong a high-profile cause célèbre that could immediately make his new organization relevant.
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
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Bicycle Bill
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
....And here's what the rest of Armstrong's teammates have been up to:
Levi Leipheimer was an all-rounder who rode with Armstrong on a few different teams at the Tour. He later admitted doping during his career. He now lives in Santa Rosa, California, where he runs a mass-participation bike ride. He also does promotion videos and coaches cyclists.
Kevin Livingston was a climber who rode on two of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams. A French Senate report accused Livingston of using EPO in the 1998 Tour. Livingston now lives in Austin, Texas, where he runs a company that coaches cyclists. It's located in the basement of Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop, which is owned by Armstrong.
Tyler Hamilton helped Armstrong win Tours by leading him through the Alps and Pyrenees. He later admitted doping during his career. Hamilton, right, leads Armstrong to his first Tour win in 1999. Hamilton now lives in Missoula, Montana. He works in real estate and helps run a company that coaches cyclists. He also gives talks. He wrote a tell-all best-seller, "The Secret Race."
George Hincapie was Armstrong's most loyal and trusted teammate and the only person to ride on all seven of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams. He admitted doping during his career. He now lives in Greenville, South Carolina, where he runs a cycling-apparel company and a mass-participation bike ride. He wrote a book, "The Loyal Lieutenant," about his career.
Floyd Landis was an all-rounder who helped Armstrong win Tours and won one himself. He, too, was stripped of his Tour title because of PEDs. Landis had a $100 million whistleblower lawsuit against Armstrong. In 2016 he started a business that sells cannabis products.
Frankie Andreu was a co-captain of the US Postal team with Armstrong in 1998, 1999, and 2000. He was one of the first riders to admit he had doped to help Armstrong win the Tour. Andreu lives in the Detroit area and works in domestic cycling as a commentator.
Christian Vande Velde rode on the first two of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams. He later admitted doping during his career. Vande Velde lives in Illinois and works as a cycling commentator for NBC.
Tom Danielson was hailed as "the next Lance Armstrong," and though he didn't race the Tour with Armstrong, they were teammates for a few years. He admitted doping. Danielson is currently provisionally suspended after testing positive for synthetic testosterone. He could face a lifetime ban from cycling, having previously admitted doping while riding with the Discovery Channel team. He lives in Boulder, Colorado, and has written a book on training for cycling. He owns a company that runs training camps for cyclists.
Dave Zabriskie was a strong time-trial rider and a teammate of Armstrong for a few years. He later admitted doping during his career. He now lives in Los Angeles, where he runs a company that makes chamois cream.
Jonathan Vaughters took the start with Armstrong's Tour-winning team in 1999, but he crashed out on stage two. He later admitted doping during his career. He now manages Cannondale Pro Cycling, a top team that competes in the Tour de France. He is outspoken against doping.
Belgian Johan Bruyneel was Armstrong's team director during his seven Tour wins. He now lives in Madrid and London. USADA handed him a 10-year ban from cycling for being "at the apex of a conspiracy to commit widespread doping."
Lance Armstrong made history by winning a record seven Tours de France but was later stripped of his titles because he used PEDs. After the 2005 race, he said: "To the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics: I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles." Armstrong now owns multimillion-dollar properties in Aspen, Colorado, and Austin, Texas. He settled federal fraud charges against him for $5 million on April 19, 2018, ending a protracted legal battle with former teammate Floyd Landis. Banned from cycling for life, Armstrong sought counseling after his doping confession. He launched a podcast in June 2016. In a 2015 interview with the BBC, Armstrong said: "If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."
-"BB"-
Levi Leipheimer was an all-rounder who rode with Armstrong on a few different teams at the Tour. He later admitted doping during his career. He now lives in Santa Rosa, California, where he runs a mass-participation bike ride. He also does promotion videos and coaches cyclists.
Kevin Livingston was a climber who rode on two of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams. A French Senate report accused Livingston of using EPO in the 1998 Tour. Livingston now lives in Austin, Texas, where he runs a company that coaches cyclists. It's located in the basement of Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop, which is owned by Armstrong.
Tyler Hamilton helped Armstrong win Tours by leading him through the Alps and Pyrenees. He later admitted doping during his career. Hamilton, right, leads Armstrong to his first Tour win in 1999. Hamilton now lives in Missoula, Montana. He works in real estate and helps run a company that coaches cyclists. He also gives talks. He wrote a tell-all best-seller, "The Secret Race."
George Hincapie was Armstrong's most loyal and trusted teammate and the only person to ride on all seven of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams. He admitted doping during his career. He now lives in Greenville, South Carolina, where he runs a cycling-apparel company and a mass-participation bike ride. He wrote a book, "The Loyal Lieutenant," about his career.
Floyd Landis was an all-rounder who helped Armstrong win Tours and won one himself. He, too, was stripped of his Tour title because of PEDs. Landis had a $100 million whistleblower lawsuit against Armstrong. In 2016 he started a business that sells cannabis products.
Frankie Andreu was a co-captain of the US Postal team with Armstrong in 1998, 1999, and 2000. He was one of the first riders to admit he had doped to help Armstrong win the Tour. Andreu lives in the Detroit area and works in domestic cycling as a commentator.
Christian Vande Velde rode on the first two of Armstrong's Tour-winning teams. He later admitted doping during his career. Vande Velde lives in Illinois and works as a cycling commentator for NBC.
Tom Danielson was hailed as "the next Lance Armstrong," and though he didn't race the Tour with Armstrong, they were teammates for a few years. He admitted doping. Danielson is currently provisionally suspended after testing positive for synthetic testosterone. He could face a lifetime ban from cycling, having previously admitted doping while riding with the Discovery Channel team. He lives in Boulder, Colorado, and has written a book on training for cycling. He owns a company that runs training camps for cyclists.
Dave Zabriskie was a strong time-trial rider and a teammate of Armstrong for a few years. He later admitted doping during his career. He now lives in Los Angeles, where he runs a company that makes chamois cream.
Jonathan Vaughters took the start with Armstrong's Tour-winning team in 1999, but he crashed out on stage two. He later admitted doping during his career. He now manages Cannondale Pro Cycling, a top team that competes in the Tour de France. He is outspoken against doping.
Belgian Johan Bruyneel was Armstrong's team director during his seven Tour wins. He now lives in Madrid and London. USADA handed him a 10-year ban from cycling for being "at the apex of a conspiracy to commit widespread doping."
Lance Armstrong made history by winning a record seven Tours de France but was later stripped of his titles because he used PEDs. After the 2005 race, he said: "To the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics: I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles." Armstrong now owns multimillion-dollar properties in Aspen, Colorado, and Austin, Texas. He settled federal fraud charges against him for $5 million on April 19, 2018, ending a protracted legal battle with former teammate Floyd Landis. Banned from cycling for life, Armstrong sought counseling after his doping confession. He launched a podcast in June 2016. In a 2015 interview with the BBC, Armstrong said: "If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
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Burning Petard
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
Unclear from the various media stories on this I have seen this morning just who gets the 5 mill. USPS? Landis? Anybody other than the lawyers?
snailgate
snailgate
...when first we practice to deceive!
It's a shame that one can no longer excel in the sport of cycling without the need for doping.
Every major bike race and every touring event will be suspect. And even when proven differently the general spectator and/or aficionado of the sport will always question the results.
As I see it, there will not be less doping just better technology to try to cover up and deceive.
Every major bike race and every touring event will be suspect. And even when proven differently the general spectator and/or aficionado of the sport will always question the results.
As I see it, there will not be less doping just better technology to try to cover up and deceive.
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
And Armstrong is now commenting on the TdF for NBC.
Actually the conversation with him, from Phil Liggett and Bob Roll, was very stilted. I know Liggett was a major Armstrong defender, but I think he was as hoodwinked as the rest of us. Very much "Who do you think will win the next stage?" and other questions like that. Embarrassing. I don't think the guy should be locked up for the rest of his life, but he can't (IMO) come back into the coverage as if nothing had happened. Bizarre.
There are plenty of ex-riders, untarnished, who could contribute.
Actually the conversation with him, from Phil Liggett and Bob Roll, was very stilted. I know Liggett was a major Armstrong defender, but I think he was as hoodwinked as the rest of us. Very much "Who do you think will win the next stage?" and other questions like that. Embarrassing. I don't think the guy should be locked up for the rest of his life, but he can't (IMO) come back into the coverage as if nothing had happened. Bizarre.
There are plenty of ex-riders, untarnished, who could contribute.
Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
That’s just not right. Lance should open a bike shop and park his ego in it, staying away from the professional sport full stop.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
The USPS were as gullible as Guinevere. really oophe
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Burning Petard
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
I watched the 4th stage on tv yesterday. It was the first time I have tuned in for this tour. I was very surprised to see the clumsy exchange with Armstrong. For me it was a total turn off.
But to reply to a post from Ray last year: " It's a shame that one can no longer excel in the sport of cycling without the need for doping."
Spend a little time with the history of the sport. Doping has always been part of pro bike racing. Way back in the day when Major Taylor was the biggest money-making pro athlete in the world, his autobiography did not claim to not use chemical helps, just no alcohol. Taylor was strictly a track rider and not an endurance rider, track or road. Endurance is where doping makes a big difference. Bike race news stories used to describe the rush of riders from the train transporting them to the start of a stage directly to the local drug stores to clean out the local supply of whatever chemical juice was available. What has changed is the rules against it.
snailgate
But to reply to a post from Ray last year: " It's a shame that one can no longer excel in the sport of cycling without the need for doping."
Spend a little time with the history of the sport. Doping has always been part of pro bike racing. Way back in the day when Major Taylor was the biggest money-making pro athlete in the world, his autobiography did not claim to not use chemical helps, just no alcohol. Taylor was strictly a track rider and not an endurance rider, track or road. Endurance is where doping makes a big difference. Bike race news stories used to describe the rush of riders from the train transporting them to the start of a stage directly to the local drug stores to clean out the local supply of whatever chemical juice was available. What has changed is the rules against it.
snailgate
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
You OK, Rube? Sit down and have a covfefe. Relax.rubato wrote:The USPS were as gullible as Guinevere. really oophe
Clumsy - excellent one word description of the exchange.SG wrote: I was very surprised to see the clumsy exchange with Armstrong. For me it was a total turn off.
...when first we practice to deceive!
Acting White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, won't last long. I bet Lance Armstrong would be an excellent replacement.
He's a bona fide, and certified, liar. What more could our Grifter-in-Chief ask for?
He's a bona fide, and certified, liar. What more could our Grifter-in-Chief ask for?
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
You're such a gentleman, Rube. really, oops, I meant asshole. 
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
And again (Stage 11, 60K to go) Liggett and Roll are talking to Armstrong. As a casual fan I really don't see what he is adding to understanding of the race: there are plenty of racers (including the NBC commenters) giving plenty of insight. Judging from the body language I think they (Liggett and Roll) are embarrassed by the whole thing.
They just showed a field of sunflowers, cut out in the shape of a yellow jersey. Absolutely spectacular. I wish I could post a shot of it. I'm sure it will be on youtube. It must have taken the farmers months to create it, and it's on screen for a few seconds. I love the TdF.
They just showed a field of sunflowers, cut out in the shape of a yellow jersey. Absolutely spectacular. I wish I could post a shot of it. I'm sure it will be on youtube. It must have taken the farmers months to create it, and it's on screen for a few seconds. I love the TdF.
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Burning Petard
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Re: ...when first we practice to deceive!
Huge field of sunflowers have become a photo tradition for the TdF. I don't know why.
snailgate
snailgate