Time For A Democratic Majority In The House...

[wesw]

would you ever hold your nose and vote for lizzie"

[RayThom]

would you ever hold your nose and vote for lizzie"

I feel strongly that a Biden/Warren run in 2020 is on the horizon. So, yes, I'd vote for Warren.

[Lord Jim]

would you ever hold your nose and vote for lizzie"

The honest answer to that question at this point wes, is "I don't know"...

In 2016, I would not have...

I posted here that if Sanders had been the nominee, I would not have voted for him...

I would not and will not under any circumstances vote for Trump, but I felt that Sanders, with his ruinous economic policies and his hostility to defense and national security would be in his own way every bit as bad for the country as Trump, so I would not have voted for him either...

And that would have applied to any other strident class warfare lefty the Democrats could have nominated, (like Warren)

I didn't have the same kind of problem with Hillary Clinton, because even though she had caved to the Demo lefty base on a lot of issues, (like TPP, which I was hopeful she would find a way to walk back after the election) she stood up pretty well on defense and security issues, and she wasn't wedded to a fantasy economic agenda...

If it had been Sanders or Warren or someone like them, I most likely would not have voted for President, (since it's impossible to do a write-in vote in California) and none of the third party candidates appealed to me, (If the Libertarian ticket had been flipped with William Weld in the top spot, I might very well have voted for him)

However...

Now having had a year and a half experience of "President Trump" and seeing the zealous way he has applied himself to subverting the rule of law, trashing our alliances and abandoning the US global leadership position that, (his ignorant bleating not withstanding) has served the US so well for the past 70 years, and undermining every institution in this country that stands as a check on his oligarchical designs, I have to take all of that into account as well...

And extrapolating all of that for an additional four years...(And I haven't even gotten to the way he degrades and defiles the office of the Presidency day in and day out, in ways great and small with his shameful, embarrassing, and disgraceful behavior and statements...)

This has had the effect of lowering my bar for who I would vote for against Trump even further....

Bad policies, no matter how awful they may be can always be reversed. The kind of systemic damage Trump is inflicting on the country is in a different category, and will be much tougher to repair...

And the longer he remains in office, the longer it will take to repair...

All that having been said, fortunately the kind of choice you posit is not one I have to consider now, and when it comes to those sorts of profoundly depressing choices I prefer not to consider them until I have to...

Trump may not be running in 2020, or if he is the Dems may not choose to march off a left-wing cliff with who they nominate...

Or there may be a good third choice to vote for...

I just had to follow up the extremely painful decision to vote for Hillary Clinton with the equally painful decision to support a Democratic congressional take-over...

I think I've earned the right to put off even thinking about what I'd do in a hypothetical race between Trump and some strident lefty...

I prefer to digest the last shit sandwich before contemplating whether or not I'd eat another one...

[wesw]

well I appreciate your dilemma ....

I ll even spare you the joke about shit sandwiches ....

[wesw]

it seems to me that a three party race will help trump win in 2020.

he has a solid 40 per cent, come hell or high water.

a radical leftist is likely to be nominated by the dems.

maybe even the "angry black man", cory booker, more likely Kemala harris or Bernie.

either way, I can t see any Revolutionary leftist getting more than 30 per cent.

so that leaves 30 per cent for the third party of Clinton democrats and never trumpers (country club repubs ).

seems to me that you won t beat trump unless you vote for someone like kemala harris.

tulsi gabbard would be your best candidate , I think, but jealousy and revenge for her dissing of the DNC will likely preclude her from getting the support of establishment Dems...

she has seemed to go off the left end since 2016 as well, so her positions might preclude her from getting the never trumpers as well...

biden/Kasich would be the likely ticket for a third party, or maybe Romney Kasich....

Kasich at the top of the ticket might be better, but I think it unlikely.

[Big RR]

Hell or high water, I wouldn't count on 40% for Trump; yes there are some diehards, but when people see the jobs aren't coming back and the trade war has lost a lot more jobs, that anger will shift toward him. The may not vote for a dem, but likely they will not vote at all. Hell, Trump may not even win the nomination.

[wesw]

maybe, RR....

but I have worked with a crew of Chinese blue collar steel workers.

when they get upset at work it looks like an old Chinese bruce lee movie.

they all get together and get riled up and then they all head over to the corrupt overseers house and raise hell.

they get their asses kicked and then they get bruce lee to avenge the noble workers.

the Iron Rice Bowl is ingrained in Chinese society.

pres. Xi doesn t want the masses to rise up, he d have to kill them and that would just be soooo inconvenient for him on the world stage.

[Jarlaxle]

would you ever hold your nose and vote for lizzie"

He has already advocated treason...so I suspect there is no line he will not cross.

[Scooter]

Could you point to the words where he advocated treason, because I'm not seeing it without the slant you use to read your screen.

[wesw]

he may be referring to jim s comment about a military coup...

I believe that Wesley clark was the chosen one.....

[wesw]

...or maybe it was Dempsey.......

[Lord Jim]

would you ever hold your nose and vote for lizzie"

He has already advocated treason...so I suspect there is no line he will not cross.

The coup thing was obviously a joke, borne of the frustration I felt regarding the awful Presidential choices that were emerging in 2016...(I believe that was specifically about a possible Trump-Sanders choice; in this thread I've given a serious answer on the same subject)

Of course you support a President who day-in and day-out demonstrates he has "no lines he won't cross" when it comes to trying to undermine the rule of law and subvert our Constitutional system of checks and balances, and he obviously ain't joking...

About that Jarl, I've had a couple of questions I've wanted to ask you regarding a couple of Trump's major policy positions:

1.Defense spending:

If I remember correctly, you have been a vociferous advocate of deep defense cuts, (as I recall you once called for cutting defense spending by 50%). Trump has supported and obtained big defense spending increases, (he regularly brags about getting a $700 billion dollar increase.)

Defense spending increases are one area where I actually agree with this Administration; how do you feel about it?

2.Policing:

You've posted very strong views against police in general on this board, and given impression that you believe there are a lot more bad cops than good ones. You've also posted advocating very harsh penalties for cops that abuse their authority.

In contrast, Donald Trump praises and sympathizes with local police regularly, brags about the support he gets from police officers and police organizations, and has even publicly advocated the physical abuse of suspects.

How do you feel about his positions on this?

[wesw]

jim, it may have been a joke, but is was most certainly not an obvious joke.

I m not going to go to the trouble to dredge it up, but you seemed awfully serious at the time.

[Scooter]

And you weren't joking when you said you would participate in an armed revolution if Clinton had been elected, or if Trump were to be constitutionally removed from office.

So why doesn't the pot calling the kettle black serve himself a big helping of STFU.

[Jarlaxle]

would you ever hold your nose and vote for lizzie"

He has already advocated treason...so I suspect there is no line he will not cross.

The coup thing was obviously a joke, borne of the frustration I felt regarding the awful Presidential choices that were emerging in 2016...(I believe that was specifically about a possible Trump-Sanders choice; in this thread I've given a serious answer on the same subject)

Of course you support a President who day-in and day-out demonstrates he has "no lines he won't cross" when it comes to trying to undermine the rule of law and subvert our Constitutional system of checks and balances, and he obviously ain't joking...

About that Jarl, I've had a couple of questions I've wanted to ask you regarding a couple of Trump's major policy positions:

1.Defense spending:

If I remember correctly, you have been a vociferous advocate of deep defense cuts, (as I recall you once called for cutting defense spending by 50%). Trump has supported and obtained big defense spending increases, (he regularly brags about getting a $700 billion dollar increase.)

Defense spending increases are one area where I actually agree with this Administration; how do you feel about it?

100% against it, the military budget should be slashed at least 50% and probably more. Since I had every expectation Hillary would have done the same, it's tough to be disappointed.

2.Policing:

You've posted very strong views against police in general on this board, and given impression that you believe there are a lot more bad cops than good ones. You've also posted advocating very harsh penalties for cops that abuse their authority.

In contrast, Donald Trump praises and sympathizes with local police regularly, brags about the support he gets from police officers and police organizations, and has even publicly advocated the physical abuse of suspects.

How do you feel about his positions on this?

Unhappy, though not surprised.

For the record, I believe somewhere between 90 and 95% of cops are bent, and a somewhat lower but still large percentage of prosecutors.

Please note: I know several people who voted Trump SOLELY for what is happening now-the Supreme Court.

[Lord Jim]

I know several people who voted Trump SOLELY for what is happening now-the Supreme Court.

So do I...

[wesw]

I bet that you can t dredge up those quotes....

your statements of my positions are distortions of my posts, at best.

more accuratelt they are purposeful deceptions, in other words they are lies.

your modus operandi is deceit.

you are back on ignore.....

[Scooter]

You said it both before and after the election. Maybe you don't remember because you were high at the time, perhaps you should rethink your decision to go off methadone.

[Scooter]

I for one would welcome a Trumpanzee uprising. It would make for a great update of some lawyer jokes.

Q. What do you call 15,000,000 Trump voters lying dead in streets running red with their blood?

A. A pretty good start.

[wesw]

i certainly don t agree with much more than half of trump s positions.

i wouldn t go as far as jarl tho, i only think that about 50 per cent of cops are bent.

i would certainly save a few bob by removing US forces from Germany. queen merkle doesn t need us after all.....

turkey would also be abandoned, they are no ally that i want, let Russia have them, they ll get indigestion very quickly, i think.

i d rather support the Kurds, and the Poles.

they would be better suited as allies , and much cheaper dates.....