Solving a 77 year old mystery?

Jarlaxle · Post by **Jarlaxle** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:17 am

The largest Allied ship lost with all hands in WW2 is, strangely, almost unknown: cruiser HMAS Sydney, sunk in November 1941, in a mutually-destructive fight with German raider Kormoran. Only witnesses were the German ship's crew: when last seen at ~6pm, Sydney was ~16 miles from Kormoran, badly damaged and on fire, steaming away at barely two knots. While the ship was soon out of sight, the fire was visible until at least 10pm, with some saying it was seen until midnight.

For decades, it was a total mystery...Sydney had seemingly vanished without a trace, leading to all sorts of bizarre theories. The wreck was found in 2006, which answered many questions: the sinking was abrupt-the bow, badly damaged by a torpedo hit-snapped completely off, and the rest of the ship-already badly flooded, shot full of 15cm shells from Kormoran, some watertight doors left open, and with as much as 3/4 of the crew already dead or incapacitated, and damage control thus not being done effectively-sank in <2 minutes. However, there was and is an enduring mystery: three months after the battle, a lookout on Christmas Island saw something floating offshore. A boat was sent to bring it in-it was a left raft, containing a partially-decomposed body in a Royal Australian Navy boiler suit. While he was buried with full honors on Christmas Island, his identity was not known.

Modern DNA testing has narrowed the field dramatically...hopefully, his name will be found, and he can be known.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/mystery ... 309df.html

MajGenl.Meade · Post by **MajGenl.Meade** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:53 am

HMS Hood was a full battle-cruiser and was sunk with the loss of 1,415 crew but 3 others survived so that's the "lost with all hands" caveat explained.

The Sydney was a light-cruiser - 645 crewmen lost. The wreck of the Sydney (and the Kormoran too) was actually found in March 2008 and I wonder why the writer thought that the story of the Sydney is "strangely, almost unknown"?

The stories of almost all of the ships with the largest losses of life in WW2 combat are far less known than that of the Sydney which, in Australia, is even the subject of a memorial Aussie rules football cup competition.

Thanks for interesting post Jarl

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:31 pm

The stories of almost all of the ships with the largest losses of life in WW2 combat are far less known than that of the Sydney

A quick count gives me 28 allied ships (including Soviet vessels) with a larger loss of life than The Sydney:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... rld_War_II

Jarlaxle · Post by **Jarlaxle** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:35 pm

Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT?

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:46 pm

Jarlaxle wrote:Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT?

My apologies if it flew past you...

I should have thought the fact that I quoted Meade's observation about other lesser known ships with greater loss of life would have made it obvious that my "point" was to provide some stats that back that up and provide some context...

Jarlaxle · Post by **Jarlaxle** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Not about largest loss of life, never said it was. Sydney was the largest Allied ship lost WITH ALL HANDS.

RayThom · Post by **RayThom** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:37 pm

I feel Jarlaxle may have brought up the HMAS Sydney story as a prelude to the upcoming National Geographic series "Drain the Oceans." I'm not a big believer in coincidence so I would suspect he thinks there's a tie-in somewhere.

Regardless, the series does pique my interest to find out more.

Drain the Oceans: Greatest mysteries of our oceans uncovered
https://www.news.com.au/travel/world-tr ... c82ed218ed

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:57 pm

Jarlaxle wrote:Not about largest loss of life, never said it was. Sydney was the largest Allied ship lost WITH ALL HANDS.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was against the rules to respond to or comment on points made in a follow up post; that one is only supposed to respond to points made in the OP...

You'll have to forgive me, I'm kind of new here; I'll make a note and try to remember that for next time...

Jarlaxle · Post by **Jarlaxle** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:32 am

RayThom wrote:I feel Jarlaxle may have brought up the HMAS Sydney story as a prelude to the upcoming National Geographic series "Drain the Oceans." I'm not a big believer in coincidence so I would suspect he thinks there's a tie-in somewhere.

Regardless, the series does pique my interest to find out more.

Drain the Oceans: Greatest mysteries of our oceans uncovered
https://www.news.com.au/travel/world-tr ... c82ed218ed

No connection whatsoever. never heard of it.

MajGenl.Meade · Post by **MajGenl.Meade** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:26 am

Jarlaxle wrote:Not about largest loss of life, never said it was. Sydney was the largest Allied ship lost WITH ALL HANDS.

Indeed, that's how I read your post but really... bit harsh on LJ there. He was commenting on something I'd written, not to criticize you at all. Play nicely, everyone!

I'm interested in the stories of ships lost at sea - mostly WW2 tales from back in the 50s when my dad was as likely to come back from the library with books about hunting the Bismark or the loss of the Wales and Renown (along with all of Singapore) as he was books about Ascari, Nuvolari and Fangio etc.

Then I got hooked on the USAT General Lyon (and wrote the one and only book about it) - Civil War sea-stuff never did get my interest before that.

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