Those who call themselves Christians

[MajGenl.Meade]

Right - it happens here too, altho' not to Westboro which is not on the South African agenda! Churches here are joining secular authorities in denouncing charlatan "prophets" and their ilk - merchants of venality, abuse and false worship in their claims to be Christian.

Some things are obviously opposable (thumbs and hatred) but other things might be positions of belief in what is or is not moral which are interpreted as hatred when, in fact, they are not. To say that homosexuality is a moral sin is not in itself hatred (although some who espouse that belief may be haters). To believe that abortion is a form of murder is neither irrational nor necessarily the province of women haters (though some who espouse that belief may be both). Christian "churchy" organizations are not going to issue blanket condemnations of anything that is clearly not hatred; merely a disagreement on right and wrong. Westboro is so obviously anti-Christ that it's easy to condemn their activity.

For me, the test is not whether people who don't like Christianity or don't like Bible believers think that some position they oppose is evidence of or motivated by hatred. It's whether it comports with the entire Bible and especially that thing about loving others as oneself. If people who claim faith don't understand, accept and admit that they themselves are sinners, then they are not all that Christian eh? If they speak of others' sin as anything different to their own, then they have not got the message. Which is love, not hate.

[Econoline]

• The False and Idolatrous Narrative of “American Christianity”
  COMMENTARY
  By Stephen Mattson / 5-13-2019

  ---

  Following Jesus is political by nature, but maybe no religious group has been more influenced — and co-opted — by political power than white, conservative Christians in America. It’s no surprise that a ruling government set up by and for white Christians retains much of the religion that helped put it into power, but the extremes to which the “Christianity” of white Americans has transformed into a political mouthpiece is alarming.
  
  Although Christians across the political spectrum have all committed wrongdoings, much of conservative white American Christianity has reached a point where the pastors, theologians, and leaders are mercilessly opposed to helping refugees, immigrants, Muslims, women, children, the sick, the poor, LGBTQ individuals, and those suffering in other countries — all for the sake of political control. The apathy, opposition, and even aggressive attacks are an abandonment of Jesus’s commands.
  
  This is not entirely new. During the brutal colonization of this land, most white people who claimed Christianity ruthlessly enforced their power using violence and dehumanization, politically and spiritually rationalizing everything as part of “manifest destiny.”
  
  Later, slave owners would manipulate the Bible to mandate subservience, and white Christendom would continue to apply a mixture of scripture and theology — heavily reinforced with brutality — to maintain control of their financial, political, and social rule.
  
  We don’t need more evidence that shows white conservative Christendom — especially the kind that is built on nationalistic and patriarchal structures — is oppressive. It attacks, silences, and diminishes opposing opinions while simultaneously promoting a nationalistic type of Christianity. White conservative Christianity selfishly prioritizes partisan platforms that favor an oppressive agenda over following Jesus. They forget that Christianity isn’t meant to be exclusively white, male, or American.
  
  “Christian America” was established by those who were almost exclusively white, male, and Christian. It was simultaneously used as a tool to eliminate and subjugate people of color and those who were not white, male, American, or Christian.
  
  Although there were a few exceptions, this kind of Christianity was used as a weapon to maintain dominance over anyone who attempted to upset the status quo. In this way, their Christianity maintained a white supremacist view of humanity where white people were set up to rule.
  
  Hate and racism were so embedded within this religion that the KKK was marketed as a Christian institution, and segregation was endorsed by countless white pastors and their congregations. It’s still so prevalent within white Christianity today that many still refuse to acknowledge systemic racism as a problem. They happily support a president who continually spews racist and xenophobic vitriol, and support policies that continue to be racist and evil.
  
  This false and idolatrous narrative of “American Christianity” is still prevalent today. But the good news is that American white males don’t own Christianity and never will. The message of Jesus — an ethnic minority who was unfairly arrested, incarcerated, and murdered by a ruling empire — is that the love and power of Christ is meant for everyone.
  
  This is why throughout history, despite the horrors committed in Christ’s name, people of every race, gender, and creed have emulated the life of Jesus by loving those around them, freeing them from bondage, righting injustice, empowering the downtrodden, and loving their neighbor as themselves. This is the very essence of Christianity that Westernized Christendom has utterly failed at: loving your neighbor.
  
  While Christianity will continue to be manipulated and weaponized for the benefit of those who do wrong, there are those who will genuinely follow Jesus — sacrificing, serving, helping, advocating, and loving. May we always center our faith on Jesus rather than any political party, politician, or false rhetoric. God help us.[/size]

[Crackpot]

Really Econo I’ve come to expect better (in terms of quality) from you. That was just painful to read. I’ve found a more coherent argument and insight listening to a rebellious teen. I mean who would have ever thought at a defining characteristic of “Christian America” was being Christian and in case we missed it he reminds us in the next sentence that they are also American

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think Mr. Mattson has a serious case of self-hatred. Pity because he makes a few good points.

[Crackpot]

But those points have all been made before. This article would be a candidate for the old “new and original” gag but I can’t find anything new.

[BoSoxGal]

[Burning Petard]

Nothing new and original? I am very disappointed in this level of 'have fun, relax, but above all ARGUE! I prefer, by orders of magnitude, arguments and apologetics that utilize logic and verifiable data over novelty.

snailgate

[Crackpot]

Eh?

[Burning Petard]

Mr. Crackport, you announced that you could not find anything new. Perhaps that is relevant in discussing beating dead horses, but I did not see that in this thread. Snailgate

[Crackpot]

You didn’t read the article Econo posted did you?

[Econoline]

[RayThom]

Hmm, there is much food for thought in this thread.

These arguments seems valid so I guess I'll now dispense with my previous belief system and adopt what I read here.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Beat me to it, RayT!

[Crackpot]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/christians ... btq-views/

[Scooter]

Christian TV Host: Meatless Burgers Are Satanic Plot To Create ‘Race Of Soulless Creatures’

Because science: Christian TV Host Rick Wiles claims that meatless burgers are a Satanic plot meant to rewrite human DNA and create a “race of soulless creatures.”

Right Wing Watch reports that Wiles, host of TruNews, a television “news” program produced for conservative Christians, believes that “plant-based alternatives to meat and dairy products, is part of a satanic plot to alter human DNA so that people can no longer worship God.”

Appearing on his program earlier this week, Wiles said:

When you go to your favorite fast food restaurant, you are going to be eating a fake hamburger. You’re going to go to the grocery store and buy a pound of fake hamburger or a fake steak, and you won’t know that it was grown in some big corporation’s laboratory. This is the nightmare world that they are taking us into. They’re changing God’s creation. Why? Because they want to be God.

Wiles continued:

God is an environmentalist. He takes this very seriously. He created this planet, he created the universe and he’s watching these Luciferians destroy this planet, destroy the animal kingdom, destroy the plant kingdom, change human DNA. Why? They want to change human DNA so that you can’t be born again. That’s where they’re going with this, to change the DNA of humans so it will be impossible for a human to be born again. They want to create a race of soulless creatures on this planet.

Wiles is a popular but controversial conservative Christian leader who often makes outrageous and idiotic claims.

For example, last October, right before the 2018 midterm elections, Wiles warned his viewers that if Democrats won the election they would slaughter “tens of thousands of Christians.” Yet even though the Democrats did win the House in the midterm election, as of today, there have been no reports of Christians being slaughtered.

Another example of Wiles being a conservative Christian idiot: Last summer the Christian TV host warned his followers that MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow was preparing to lead a bloody coup to overthrow the Trump administration.

Perhaps even more alarming, last month Wiles told his audience that conservative Christians will “impose Christian rule in this country,” while warning that those who support reproductive rights will spend eternity being “aborted continuously forever” by demons in Hell.

Bottom line: Christian TV Host Rick Wiles warns his viewers that meatless burgers are a Satanic plot meant to rewrite human DNA and create a “race of soulless creatures.”

The stupid, it burns.

[Econoline]

[Scooter]

[RayThom]

Democrats, Republicans Deeply Divided On Exactly How To Misinterpret The Bible
https://babylonbee.com/news/report-demo ... -the-bible

[Econoline]

• Ex-Reagan adviser nails why white evangelicals flock to Trump
  Why do evangelicals — or at least, white ones — love President Donald Trump so much? Why do they stick by a president who has barely even read the Bible, has defiled marriage, and embodies the antithesis of so much of what their churches preach? Why, according to polls, did they essentially decide overnight that it’s no longer important for a president to have strong personal morals to be an effective leader?
  
  In conversation with CNN’s Michael Smerconish on Saturday, former Reagan and George W. Bush adviser Peter Wehner, an anti-Trump conservative and himself an evangelical, tried to break down the calculus white evangelical voters have used to embrace Trumpism — and how it is poisonous for the future of Christianity in America.
  
  “The thesis is that Donald Trump has tapped into something deep among some white evangelicals,” said Wehner. “The bottom line is that he will fight for them. Not that he himself is of Christian faith. Not even he himself is a manifestation of Christian virtues, but they feel like they are involved in an existential struggle against a malicious enemy that they consider to be the Left, the American Left. And Trump will try and vanquish that enemy. And that he’ll do it in means that they themselves might be uncomfortable with doing — there’s a ruthlessness to Donald Trump and a dehumanization of them that they feel like is necessary to defeat a foe that they think will destroy most of what they know and love.”
  
  “The now-president famously employed Roy Cohn as his attack dog, as his lawyer, when he was a Manhattan-based developer,” said Smerconish. “And as I read your piece, I was thinking, it’s as if the evangelical community has similarly hired a ringer, hired a fighter for them, regardless of whether he’s one of them?”
  
  “Yeah, I think that’s a good analogy,” said Wehner. “That is exactly it. They feel like he’ll bring a gun to a cultural knife fight, Donald Trump, that he hates the same people that they hate. And that he’ll employ means that’ll get it done.”
  
  “Now in doing that, I think it’s led them into all sort of dark alleyways,” added Wehner. “I think it’s been tremendously discrediting to the Christian faith. And I think it’s shown to a watching world a tremendous amount of hypocrisy, after all this ‘character counts’ and ‘personal integrity’ and political leadership was central to what a lot of evangelicals argued when Bill Clinton was president. And now that it’s Donald Trump, they’ve decided to push it aside, which means for them that reality is a means to an end, not an end, it was something to be used as a political weapon. And when that happens, when people look at it and see and say, ‘oh, I get it, this is all a game,’ then that can have a corrosive effect on the trust that people have for Christians.”
  
  “I am a Christian, as you said, my faith is more important than my politics,” said Wehner. “They’re both important. But to see what’s happening to the witness of Christ and Christianity in all of this, it’s a painful thing to see. I argue in my book that I think a lot of these white evangelical leaders are doing more to hurt Christianity than the so-called New Atheists ever could.”

[MajGenl.Meade]

Exactly!