patriarchy worth fighting against

[wesw]

islam.

[Big RR]

Didn't we try that with the Crusades? Didn't really work then, and now there's not so much portable plunder to make the fight worthwhile.

[wesw]

well, the conquest of spain, which is left out of your "histories" of the crusades, began it all.

we don t have to go to the holy land to fight islam, it is invading Europe again, and America

we can fight it here and re conquer our own countries.

islam oppresses wahmen more than anything.

or we could just mind our business and let the little clits continue to be removed in Minnesota.

[Big RR]

Th Moorish invasion of Spain is left out of history? Not in the schools I attended, and not in my kids' schools either; not to mention in popular culture--El Cid was a major motion picture. And the Spsnish inquisition, which was a part of the re-"Christianization" of Spain is well known popularly. It's hardly hidden in the history books.

But, so far as I know there was no Crusade to Spain--they all centered around the holy lands and taking them back from the hands of the heathens (not to mention plundering the treasures that were there). Not that the church didn't align itself with the "Reconquista", and other countries didn't participate; but then they participated in driving the jews out as well. It was more of Christians vs all who dared to call themselves non christian, not just the forces of islam.

As for the rest of your post, I guess you don't believe in freedom of religion.

[wesw]

freedom of religion is fine, as long as that religion doen t want to annihilate us, as does islam.

that is not just religion, that is an existential threat.

your shallow analysis of the conquest and re conquest of spain left out a lot.

it doesn t matter now, but the new invasion and attempted new conquest does.

islam and democracy are not compatible

they are about as tolerant as the "we re here and we re queer" crowd.

I guess that you think that you will be safe?

even if you are woke you are still a white straight old man

you will not be immune

willful blindness to reality is not a sensible thing, unless you hate yourself and think that you deserve to be purged.

[Big RR]

I'd take my chance with the mainstream moslems vs the vigilante yahoos who want to run them out, much as earlier yahoos did to blacks, jews, and a multitude of other minorities who were also labeled dangers. And I'd much rather live in a diverse state with many cultures and religions (with all of the problems that come with it), than in the sort of fundamentalist christian theocracy many on the right promote. One need only look at the recent anti abortion laws in several states passed to see the hell that such a state would spawn.

by the way, what sort of analysis of the Reconquista are you alluding to? Four lines in a post, part of which discussed the crusades, and another part of which discussed the Reconquista in popular culture, does not an analysis, even a shallow one< make--of course it "left a lot out".

[wesw]

I ve never heard anyone promote a fundamentalist Christian theocracy and I would certainly stand against that.

can you provide an example?

[Big RR]

Well, I'm glad you stand against it, but just look at the latest Georgia anti-abortion law forcing victims of rape and incest to bear their attacker's child. If that's not a move toward a fundamentalist right wing Christian theocracy, I don't know what is. Indeed, the religious arguments are what framed the debate leading to the passage.

[Guinevere]

Thank you BigRR. As usual, you are entirely correct. One does not fight the patriarchy by instead being racist and bigoted.

[wesw]

well rape and incest are tricky examples.

grey areas.

I really don t know how I feel about those examples, but you don t have to be a fundamental Christian to believe that aborting babies is wrong, especially when the same people who support abortion also believe that we need to import people from other countries to make up for population loss

personally I believe that population decline is a good thing

more resources for the remaining population.

the pop. will stabilize at a sustainable number, I think

and it is not being racist or bigoted to observe that islam is the chief oppressor of wahmen in the world

if you deny that you deny truth and you are lost to logic and reason.

you don t have to like something to admit the fact of it.

[Big RR]

Chief oppressor of women in the world? I sincerely doubt it. Not that islam doesn't have some problematic tenets, and not that some take them to a very ridiculous degree, but I think non islamics are just as capable of oppressing women, and frequently do.

As for rape and incest being "gray areas", I don't see it--nor do I see a law requiring a woman raped or a woman subjected to an incestuous relationship being forced to bear her attacker's child as anything but oppression of women. You may not have to be a fundamentalist Christian to believe that abortion is "wrong" (that debate is for another thread), but I'd bet the vast majority of those who believe that treating victimized women in this way is "right" are fundamentalist Christians, although the misogynists rank a pretty close second 9and many would fall within both groups).

[Guinevere]

Clearly the Trumpanzee talking point for the day: Islam BAD. America GOOD. Bomb Iran.

[Bicycle Bill]

well rape and incest are tricky examples.

grey areas.

Spoken like a truly idiotic, imbecilic, insignificant little dick-puller who 's either completely off his meds or is on some really powerful hallucinogenic ones.

What's grey about it?  Rape and incest are wrong — period.  (new paragraph)  Amen!

-"BB"-

[Scooter]

You've got to understand that most of wes's family tree descends from rape and incest, so...

[Bicycle Bill]

I guess then that explains these pictures of wes and his girlfriend standing by his pickup truck.



-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

Abortion bans in several states, abortion barely available in many more and thus functionally unavailable to tens of millions of women - that’s a war on women’s freedoms by a patriarchy worth fighting against.

Same patriarchy that tells the pro-life lie while undermining every social policy that would actually promote long, healthy, enriched and rewarding lives for all citizens, instead seeking to profit the wealthy few.

Same patriarchy that harbors white supremacists, white nationalism, pastors who preach death to the LGBTQ community, et al. The Deplorables.

That’s a patriarchy worth fighting against. That’s the one most actively trying to destroy my country, and the one that deserves my full attention.

[Scooter]

[Scooter]

I ve never heard anyone promote a fundamentalist Christian theocracy and I would certainly stand against that.

can you provide an example?

Sure can:

Tennessee preacher-cop calls for execution of LGBTQ people

(CNN) - Authorities in Tennessee are reviewing all pending cases involving a Knox County Sheriff's Office detective after he gave a sermon at his church that called for the government to execute members of the LGBTQ community.

"They are worthy of death," Grayson Fritts said in a June 2 sermon at All Scripture Baptist Church, a small church in Knoxville that he leads.

The church posted the sermon online and then removed it, according to The Washington Post. The video was picked up by the Tennessee Holler, an independent liberal news outlet, and edited into a six-minute clip.

"God has instilled the power of civil government to send the police in 2019 out to the LGBT freaks and arrest them and have a trial for them, and if they are convicted, then they are to be put to death," he said in the clip.

Fritts said it would be easy to find people to arrest at events such as gay pride parades.

"We have a bunch of them we're going to get convicted because they have all their pride junk on, and they're professing what they are, that they're a filthy animal," he said.

CNN has not been able to reach Fritts for comment. Speaking to journalists before giving a sermon last Wednesday, Fritts said his anti-LGBTQ beliefs have not interfered with his work as a law enforcement officer.

"It's totally separate, because if I'm employed by the sheriff's office, then if they came into the sheriff's office, obviously they're allowed there," he said, according to WATE. "You understand what I'm saying? This. I am over this. I am the head of this church. I say who comes and goes. Those people are not permitted to join, those people are not permitted to attend."

The church Fritts leads operates out of a storefront in Knoxville. WATE attended a service on June 12 and reported 16 people attended.

The All Scripture Baptist Church website says it is "an independent, fundamental, King James Bible only, soul-winning church. Don't expect anything liberal, watered down, or contemporary here."

The website is clear about the church's stance on the gay community:

"We believe that sodomy (homosexuality) is a sin that is against nature. A person will only burn in their lust toward the same gender if they have been given over to a reprobate or rejected mind. God said homosexuality should be punished with the death penalty, as set forth in Leviticus 20:13. No homosexual will be allowed to attend or join All Scripture Baptist Church."

In the sermon that night, Fritts said he's not an outlier about LGBTQ rights.

"The world looks at it like, there's Pastor Fritts, there's that lone wolf," he said. "There's Pastor Fritts, that one guy. That one Baptist pastor that's just a lunatic. That's just crazy. Guess what? There's a lot of people that believe exactly like I believe."

Saying that the state should execute those whom the Bible says should be executed is pretty much the epitome of fundamentalist theocracy, wouldn't you agree?

Of course you'd be applying for the jobs to pull the switch or push the plungers or whatever, if only because it probably pays better than whatever you are scrounging along on now.

[wesw]

guin, I don t don t know where you got that, but I absolutely don t support war with iran.

I find the shia version of islam much more palatable than the sunni version.

theocracy is just bad, imho.

I find the catholic version of Christianity perverted as well.

a church that discourages reading of the bible?

not for me.

the fancy vestments and opulent wealth, the denial of marriage to its priests...., and the red shoes?

nah.

catholics are fine, but the church itself is abhorrent to me.

the same with that church who protests at military funerals.

disgusting.

don t put words in mouth please.

you know nothing.

many religions and even non religious people have as much to do with Good as does Christianity, in my view.

many churches religions and philosophies cater to evil, imho, as well

nothing is black and white.


as for rape and incest, of couse they are evil, but the abortion question is grey , for me, in those cases.



as for me, I ll refrain from further comment, for now, I ve said my peace.

[Scooter]

More theocracy in action:

Newly Elected California State Senator Holds Christian-Only Town Hall Meeting

Brian Dahle, a Republican member of the California State Senate who just won his seat after a special election earlier this month, held a Christian-only meeting on Thursday night.

According to the description of the event on Facebook, the Faith & Values Town Hall wasn’t even open to people of non-Christian faith, much less atheists. No wonder it was held at Little Country Church in Redding.

Christians from local churches are invited to a Faith & Values Town Hall with your newly elected Senator, Brian Dahle, moderated by Redding Mayor, Julie Winter.

There are particular values that those of the Christian faith care deeply about as they shape the society and culture of our cities, states, and nation. Because it can be difficult to know who our elected officials are, and what policies and legislation they are voting for on our behalf, many Christians have chosen to simply pray for the nation. Prayer is vital, but in addition to prayer, all citizens — including those of faith — are encouraged to be informed as they participate in the basics of their civic duties.

Whether you consider yourself Republican, Independent, Democrat, or unaffiliated, bring your questions or come hear the conversation at this unique and respectful gathering.

There isn’t a single value, relevant to government, that Christians care about that all other members of the community reject. So why was the invitation worded as if to tell Jews, atheists, Muslims, and Hindus that they’re not wanted?

A local reporter wanted to know, but Dahle was completely dismissive:

When asked about the critics of this event, Dahle told Action News Now, “Halleluja! They are getting to use their constitutional right to say that they don’t agree with what I’m doing but I have a constitutional right to also stand up here and say, ‘Hey, I think people of faith should be involved,” said Dahle. “So, I applaud it, I think it’s great. That’s what I love about this country.”

That’s… a complete non-answer to the question. This isn’t about freedom of speech. This is about a government official telling members of one religion that they get special access to him while others will never receive a similar invite. (Unless Dahle plans to hold a meet-and-greet with atheists. Which he won’t.)

Also, the problem with politics is not that people of faith aren’t involved. It’s that people of one faith — and only one faith — run the damn joint. Dahle isn’t opening the door for Christians to get involved in politics. He’s shutting the door on everybody else.

Even at the meeting, Dahle made it clear that he would use his public office to promote his religion.

“I did not win this race. God won this race,” said Brian Dahle during the Town Hall meeting. “If I wasn’t supposed to be in the Senate, I wouldn’t be in the Senate,” said the newly sworn-in California Senator during a Faith and Values Town Hall Thursday night.

“People want to know where you stand, where you draw the line on certain issues. I tried to share that tonight,” said the Senator.

He later said on his official government page that the event was a chance for him to “talk about [his] faith and the role it plays in my public service.”

I know we play this game all the time, but just imagine if Rep. Ilhan Omar held an event in her District just for Muslims, or California Rep. Jared Huffman had a public event only for people without faith.

What Dahle did in one of his first public actions as a state senator was absolutely appalling if not downright illegal. At least it would be if Republicans treated Christian Nationalists the same way they treat everybody else.