Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace

[BoSoxGal]

Here an....interesting graphic:

OMFG

These morons live among us and breed indiscriminately.

[Bicycle Bill]

Here an....interesting graphic:

Hanlon's Razor says, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," and God knows there are more than enough stupid people out there to go around.  However, there must be an as-yet-unnamed opposite to Hanlon's Razor — let's call it "BB's Inversion of Hanlon's Razor" — because just because there ARE a wealth of stupid people around one still cannot automatically dismiss malice in the form of sabotage or shenanigans.

Take the given example.  You've got to wonder how many people actually tried to site the country in question properly, and how many people were intentionally just fucking around with the survey.  I mean, putting Iran on the island of Greenland, for Pete's sake, or in South America, Australia, or the middle of the Gulf of Mexico?  Really??

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

I heard Mike Lee (republican senator from Utah) criticizing Trump's Iran briefing yesterday as "insulting" among other things, and saying the legislative branch must take back its Constitutional power of declaring war, saying he will join as a consponsor of Rand Paul's resolution curtailing executive power in this area. Could it be after decades of presidents doing what they damn well pleased with out armed forces, the legislative branch might get the balls to stand up say it's wrong?

[ex-khobar Andy]

I'm having a little trouble believing that map.

The original on the Morning Consult (marketing / polling) site is here.

There is also a similar smaller map centred on the Middle East where just 27% got it right.



Take a look at Iran. It shows pretty much what you would expect. If you were going to indicate which country is the one selected, you'd put your pin somewhere in the middle. That's clearly the case with those who selected Iran. I wouldn't hold it much against someone who had the right idea but selected Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria and you can see the same pattern with those countries: the bulk of the picks are towards the middle of the country. There is also a surprising demographic: almost twice as many men as women chose correctly. 38% of men, 20% of women. Really? I could have a low opinion of women's intelligence (and for the record I don't) but I don't think that anyone would believe half.

Something else is going on. Look at Sudan. Around 30 people picked that. OK, if you really believe that Sudan is Iran, you'd stick your pin more or less in the middle not randomly anywhere within the border. My guess is that at least some of the errors (mid-Atlantic, somewhere over Nebraska) were some sort of mouse error. Most polls are conducted by phone. You can't show a map on a landline. If they then send a map to your smart phone and ask you to point out Iran with your finger many of us fumblefingers would probably get it wrong just in handling the phone: too late, you touched the screen, that is your choice. The alternative is to stand in a public place somewhere - a mall? - and hand the pollee (is that a word?) an iPad. Same thing.

As BB said, a lot of people fuck with polls, too.

[BoSoxGal]

Back in the late 80s when I was living in Arizona and excitedly planning a relocation to Maine, I was talking to some coworkers about the move and one of them asked me where in France it was. She was drop dead serious. She didn’t seem like a dumb person but that was my first lesson in the vast ignorance of the American population. A shockingly high percentage of Americans can’t even properly label the states of America if handed a blank map.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nati ... illiteracy

[MajGenl.Meade]

I put my dot on the area labelled "Iran".

[Big RR]

BSG--I'd bet a significant percentage of American adults, maybe even a majority, couldn't even name all 50 states.

[BoSoxGal]

BSG--I'd bet a significant percentage of American adults, maybe even a majority, could even name all 50 states.

Did you mean to say couldN’T? If you did, I’d agree with you wholeheartedly.

I don’t mean to be elitist or arrogant. Far as I know - at least within the past couple decades the stats still indicated that a majority of Americans spent their entire lives residing within 50 miles of their birthplace. Absent extensive travel and considering the typical American public school curriculum - which doesn’t include much if any emphasis on geography - they don’t get exposed to much opportunity to build this knowledge base.

I had a few things in childhood that fueled a fascination with geography - a huge single volume Brittanica World Atlas with a 10 language key that I spent endless hours looking at, an old globe in my playroom that I loved to spin and look at (wish I still had it so I could compare how the borders and names have changed since then), and a fabulous 5th grade pencil box that had a US map on the cover and a dial/window on each side - you dialed up the state and the corresponding capital dialed up on the other side. I still think in a pinch I could recite all the states and capitals; it might be one of those things that I randomly ramble when I’m shuffling around the old age home having lost most of the rest of my mind.

[BoSoxGal]

I found it! This was my pencil box - from a company called Sterling, apparently produced in the 60s, so mine was probably from one of the many flea markets my gran took me to. Apparently this company also made world countries/capitals, US Presidents/Vice Presidents, great dates in US history and a modern maths version dial-a-fact pencil cases. Such a great idea!

But I guess who even carries pencil cases anymore?

I loved mine SO much - the memory of it is burned in my brain but it was a thrill to see it again exactly as designed.

[RayThom]

And here's the breakdown of the geopolitical scholars who took the poll.

[RayThom]

And who pays the price of the penis waving? 176 innocent souls on board a commercial airliner.

And the plot thickens. I can't wait for the Big Grifter's spin on this.

Ukraine plane was probably shot down by (Russian made) Iranian missile, report claims
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 419263002/

[Big RR]

BSG--thanks for catching that, I did mean "couldn't" and will correct my post.

And I agree, geography seems to be emphasized less and less; I recall having big US maps in most grammar school classrooms and globes as well. Geography was taught as a subject, and soime teachers were better than others, but we learned about major cities and rivers, oceans, and seas throughout the world. We also used to have geography "bees" where we had to name state, and later foreign country, capitals. I used to work with my daughters on geography lessons, as they had little of it in school (I guess it's not impoprtant enough to be on the mandated tests) and my wife did the same when she ran a mentoring program for inner city children in our school (one of the most popular things they did was to spend a while learning about Egypt, and then going to Philadelphia to view a touring artifacts exhibit); we still keep in touch with some of the "kids" (now in their 20s, and some who are college graduates) and they still remember a lot about Egypt and that trip). I also recall a cartoon show based on geography (something like Carmen San Diego) that my kids watched, that might help a little, but I'm not sure if it's even still on.

As someone who holds degrees in sciences, I fully understand the importance of STEM subjects, but subjects like geography should not be overlooked.

BTW, I have to love that pencil box; I learned the state capitals from a list on a paper.

[liberty]

Here an....interesting graphic:

OMFG

These morons live among us and breed indiscriminately.

I have a hard time believing that; it would seem that the vast majority of people could at least place Iran on the correct continent and region. I would be interested in seeing a breakdown of the data on the respondents.

[liberty]

And here's the breakdown of the geopolitical scholars who took the poll.

Well, that is something but not enough; for example where did they go to school?

[Sue U]

Something else is going on. Look at Sudan. Around 30 people picked that. OK, if you really believe that Sudan is Iran, you'd stick your pin more or less in the middle not randomly anywhere within the border. My guess is that at least some of the errors (mid-Atlantic, somewhere over Nebraska) were some sort of mouse error. Most polls are conducted by phone. You can't show a map on a landline. If they then send a map to your smart phone and ask you to point out Iran with your finger many of us fumblefingers would probably get it wrong just in handling the phone: too late, you touched the screen, that is your choice.

That may help to explain that strange cluster of dots over the Balkans, if people were trying to re-center the map.

[Big RR]

Not to mention that there are people like me who would put it in antarctica or anywhere other than the ME, just to screw up the results. I do that a lot on phone polls I don't hang up on as well.

[BoSoxGal]

And who pays the price of the penis waving? 176 innocent souls on board a commercial airliner.

And the plot thickens. I can't wait for the Big Grifter's spin on this.

Ukraine plane was probably shot down by (Russian made) Iranian missile, report claims
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 419263002/

I'm so sorry that my gut instinct appears to have been correct.

[Econoline]

My guess is that at least some of the errors (mid-Atlantic, somewhere over Nebraska) were some sort of mouse error. Most polls are conducted by phone. You can't show a map on a landline. If they then send a map to your smart phone and ask you to point out Iran with your finger many of us fumblefingers would probably get it wrong just in handling the phone: too late, you touched the screen, that is your choice. The alternative is to stand in a public place somewhere - a mall? - and hand the pollee (is that a word?) an iPad. Same thing.

As BB said, a lot of people fuck with polls, too.

Both of these probably would account for some of the wrong answers, as would the decline in teaching of geography, and just general ignorance (aka Fox News ).

Another factor which may explain a lot might be the fact that a surprisingly large number just don't get the whole concept of maps: what maps are, what they represent, and just *HOW* this information is represented. (And of course those people, like those who may be functionally illiterate, are prone to embarrassment, denial, and just a random stab at an answer to cover it up.)

[Bicycle Bill]

To BSG, whith regard to this post of yours back on Wednesday—

And who pays the price of the penis waving? 176 innocent souls on board a commercial airliner.

This excerpt from a release by the Associated Press, which I consider to be a legitimate, reputable, and usually accurate source of news journalism:

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran announced Saturday that its military “unintentionally” shot down the Ukrainian jetliner that crashed earlier this week, killing all 176 aboard, after the government had repeatedly denied Western accusations that it was responsible.

The plane was shot down early Wednesday, hours after Iran launched a ballistic missile attack on two military bases housing U.S. troops in Iraq in retaliation for the killing of Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani in an American airstrike in Baghdad.  No one was wounded in the attack on the bases.

A military statement carried by state media said the plane was mistaken for a “hostile target” after it turned toward a “sensitive military center” of the Revolutionary Guard.  The military was at its “highest level of readiness," it said, amid the heightened tensions with the United States.

“In such a condition, because of human error and in a unintentional way, the flight was hit,” the statement said.  It apologized for the disaster and said it would upgrade its systems to prevent such “mistakes” in the future.

Now that the facts are out it would assume your initial reaction was more correct than not, and I will, readily and of my own free will, acknowledge that now.  Whether or not I am willing to believe Iranian statements that it was "unintentional" or caused by "human error" is a topic for a different discussion.

-"BB"-

[Joe Guy]

I'm trying to think of a good reason why Iran would say the airliner was shot down unintentionally or in error if it wasn't unintentional or in error. It wouldn't make any sense to admit to an error if they are trying to make a show of strength or attempting to get even with the US for our killing of Soleimani, would it?