Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace

[Darren]

The people are in the streets of Tehran calling for the resignation of the Ayatollah and shouting ‘Death to Liars’.

Those Iranians are better citizens than most Americans.

I agree. They aren't unhappy that General Soleiamani was taken care of.

Like you I'm surprised at Americans that are upset that one of the worse terrorists was rendered DRT, Hopefully the Iranian green revolution will succeed and the deaths caused by the mullahs and the likes of Soleiamani won't be for naught,

[Scooter]

If you consider the Iranians' screw up as deliberate because they now admitted they shot the plane down that's your opinion. It still looks like an accident facilitated by incompetence and equipment that failed to discriminate between a target and a non-target.

Once again, it was you that raised the prospect that it was deliberate:

I'm wondering if it wasn't deliberate.

If you recognize now that it was foolish to say so, you needn't attempt to deflect by trying to put words in my mouth.

[Scooter]

The people are in the streets of Tehran calling for the resignation of the Ayatollah and shouting ‘Death to Liars’.

Those Iranians are better citizens than most Americans.

I agree. They aren't unhappy that General Soleiamani was taken care of.

Like you I'm surprised at Americans that are upset that one of the worse terrorists was rendered DRT, Hopefully the Iranian green revolution will succeed and the deaths caused by the mullahs and the likes of Soleiamani won't be for naught,

Do you really believe that twisting others' words like this fools anyone, or somehow scores you points?

[Scooter]

[BoSoxGal]

Thank you, Scooter.

[Econoline]

I'm sure Soleimani will enjoy his virgin vinyl sheep which come 72 to a case.

And you know this how?...

[Econoline]

The people are in the streets of Tehran calling for the resignation of the Ayatollah and shouting ‘Death to Liars’.

Those Iranians are better citizens than most Americans.

Someone on the Beeb this morning (an Iranian BBC correspondent, IIRC) pointed out that the fact that there were so many foreign and dual-citizenship passengers was the only reason the Iranian military had to 'fess up...if all those aboard had been Iranian citizens they would have continued to stonewall and lie to their own citizenry and deflect the blame to the US. Good point, and those people in the streets of Tehran know it. (Also, Ukraine at first played dumb about the cause until they had their own investigators on the ground to confirm it was a missile.)

That said...in war, shit happens. People die. Innocents die. "Collateral damage." When you whack the hornets' nest (especially without any follow-up plan) you can't control who gets stung.

And after Iran Air 655, the US (EVENTUALLY!!) admitted guilt and paid damages. Ukraine — and the US and the citizens of Iran — should expect no less from the Revolutionary Guard.

[Lord Jim]

The people are in the streets of Tehran calling for the resignation of the Ayatollah and shouting ‘Death to Liars’.

Those Iranians are better citizens than most Americans.

I agree. They aren't unhappy that General Soleiamani was taken care of.

This is a complete misrepresentation of BSG's point Darren, and you are a bright enough fella to realize what you are doing here...

She is of course referring to the demonstrations brought on by the Iranian regime's initial dishonesty about shooting down the plane; nothing to do with their feelings about Solemani.

She's pointing out the distinction between these folks and contrasting them with the 40% of Americans who apparently don't care about the non-stop lying of Trump and his regime...

You may be the most articulate Trump supporter we have here, (don't let that go to your head; it ain't a high bar) but you don't seem to be the slightest bit more intellectually honest...

[BoSoxGal]

That’s such a lovely defense of my post LJ, I’m almost loathe to pick a fight with you - almost.

Whilst I agree with your reference to the 40% of Liar-endorsing American citizens, I also have contempt for the other 60% of Americans who can’t be arsed to shut off the Netflix, et al. and take to the streets for anything other than a good post-sports-championship-win riot/looting session.

Chief Justice Roberts is right - Americans take democracy for granted. People in Iran are dying under the sanctions we’ve placed on them and they risk torture and death by taking to the streets and protesting the dictatorial regime there - and there they are, calling for Death to Liars!

While most of us sit and stuff our faces and heads with junk. *sigh*

[RayThom]

Speaking of Ollie -- here is his henchwoman...

[Econoline]

The NYT has video of the shit hitting the fan missile hitting the plane.

• A small explosion occurred when what appears to be a missile hit the plane above Parand, a city near the airport, but the plane did not explode, the video showed. The jet continued flying for several minutes and turned back toward the airport, The Times has determined. The plane, which by then had stopped transmitting its signal, flew toward the airport ablaze before it exploded and crashed quickly, other videos verified by The Times showed.

[RayThom]

That's distressing. I was kind of hoping all passengers died instantly as those missiles hit. Instead, and obviously, many of them were still alive as they hurled toward their death. Just like passengers on all the 9/11 jets.

I can't image those last few moments -- what is said, what is done?

The luxury of dying in my own bed, and asleep, is really sounding good to me.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I recommend binge-watching "Air Crash Investigation" (aka Mayday in USA/Canada). Harrowing stuff made by Canadians to a very high standard. I'd travel by ship if it weren't for that recent Titanic unpleasantness.

[Darren]

If you consider the Iranians' screw up as deliberate because they now admitted they shot the plane down that's your opinion. It still looks like an accident facilitated by incompetence and equipment that failed to discriminate between a target and a non-target.

Once again, it was you that raised the prospect that it was deliberate:

I'm wondering if it wasn't deliberate.

If you recognize now that it was foolish to say so, you needn't attempt to deflect by trying to put words in my mouth.

Case closed. It was deliberate.

The Iranians now claim it was the act of one individual that had ten seconds to make a decision during a break down in communications. I doubt communications played a part unless the IFF gear was inoperative. That would qualify as communications.

Faulty IFF gear couldn't do a friend or foe query of the aircraft transponder. Operating a missile battery near an international airport with faulty equipment says a lot about competence. The other issue is the claim of a single operator. Russian equipment of that type more than likely requires a crew including one to operate the electronics.

The other issue is that the Iranians expect the world to believe the battery also had anti-missile capability along with anti-aircraft capability. That's too much of a stretch.

"TEHRAN: The Iranian missile operator who shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet was acting alone when he opened fire because of a communications breakdown, a Revolutionary Guards commander said on Saturday (Jan 11).

The operator had mistaken the Boeing 737 for a "cruise missile" and only had 10 seconds to decide whether to fire, said Brigadier General Amirali Hajizadeh, the Guards' aerospace commander."' https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wo ... y_tOlqpgnc

[Bicycle Bill]

I recommend binge-watching "Air Crash Investigation" (aka Mayday in USA/Canada). Harrowing stuff made by Canadians to a very high standard. I'd travel by ship if it weren't for that recent Titanic unpleasantness.

There's still Amtrak and (in Canada) VIA Rail.

-"BB"-

[Darren]

I'm sure Soleimani will enjoy his virgin vinyl sheep which come 72 to a case.

And you know this how?...

Why would Allah subject a newly dead soul to 72 virgins? That doesn't sound like paradise to me.

That's more in line with some interpretations of the Bible I've heard. Once you buy into a belief system you're subject to the interpretations to maintain your good standing with the cult. The 72 virgins thing would appeal to those whose sexual experience was limited to four legged critters. Anyone else would know better. How many old farts do you read about blowing themselves up? It's the young and dumb.

My interpretation of the after life is just as valid as those guys screaming off minarets.

How many disagree with me in preferring an experienced woman?

[MajGenl.Meade]

I recommend binge-watching "Air Crash Investigation" (aka Mayday in USA/Canada). Harrowing stuff made by Canadians to a very high standard. I'd travel by ship if it weren't for that recent Titanic unpleasantness.

There's still Amtrak and (in Canada) VIA Rail.

-"BB"-

For some reason both Amtrak and VIA Rail rejected my request for tickets to UK and France in July next.

[Scooter]

If you consider the Iranians' screw up as deliberate because they now admitted they shot the plane down that's your opinion. It still looks like an accident facilitated by incompetence and equipment that failed to discriminate between a target and a non-target.

Once again, it was you that raised the prospect that it was deliberate:

I'm wondering if it wasn't deliberate.

If you recognize now that it was foolish to say so, you needn't attempt to deflect by trying to put words in my mouth.

Case closed. It was deliberate.

The Iranians now claim it was the act of one individual that had ten seconds to make a decision during a break down in communications. I doubt communications played a part unless the IFF gear was inoperative. That would qualify as communications.

Faulty IFF gear couldn't do a friend or foe query of the aircraft transponder. Operating a missile battery near an international airport with faulty equipment says a lot about competence. The other issue is the claim of a single operator. Russian equipment of that type more than likely requires a crew including one to operate the electronics.

The other issue is that the Iranians expect the world to believe the battery also had anti-missile capability along with anti-aircraft capability. That's too much of a stretch.

"TEHRAN: The Iranian missile operator who shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet was acting alone when he opened fire because of a communications breakdown, a Revolutionary Guards commander said on Saturday (Jan 11).

The operator had mistaken the Boeing 737 for a "cruise missile" and only had 10 seconds to decide whether to fire, said Brigadier General Amirali Hajizadeh, the Guards' aerospace commander."' https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wo ... y_tOlqpgnc

Keep flip flopping, this is fun. I'll make popcorn.

[Darren]

Keep flip flopping, this is fun. I'll make popcorn.

If you believe Iran has an effective anti-missile system you're ignoring the recent failure of the Patriot setup that did not protect the Saudi oil facilities and the fact the US Army is buying anti-missile systems from Israel.

The Israelis finally developed a three level system after a long period of time. I've already explained the technology from an almost fifty year look backward of what was state of the art then vs. what computerization and solid state electronics should enable now as far as determining whether an aircraft is friend or foe.

In short that wasn't an anti-missile battery the supposed lone Iranian manned. It was an anti-aircraft battery. So blaming the shoot down on an incoming missile alert was a BS excuse.

The NY Times says the flight shot down was one of 19 out of Tehran that night. That strikes me as curious. Did the rest of the missile crew go on a meal break and leave the village idiot in charge? https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... dome-deal/

[Scooter]

I haven't claimed to "believe" anything. Once again you are trying to twist in order to get out from under your own series of self-contradictions. Accident...deliberate...accident...deliberate... let us know when you finally make up your mind.