Rugby used to be a game for hard men.

[Gob]

Joe Marler has given his response to the storm over his manhandling of Alun Wyn Jones's genitals with Piers Morgan among those weighing into the debate on Twitter.



The England prop tweeted 'B*******. Complete b*******' on Sunday night with his international future in doubt as he faces a disciplinary hearing following the controversial incident in the Six Nations win over Wales.

As players from both sides engaged in a skirmish on England's line during Saturday's match at Twickenham, replays showed Marler brazenly holding Jones by the genitals.

Footage of the incident led to ferocious debate on Twitter, with some passing off the incident as a harmless joke and others accusing Marler of sexual assault.




Piers Morgan was among those to have his say on the controversy, tweeting: 'There are now two types of people in the world - those who laughed at this @JoeMarler incident, and those who think he should be arrested.

'I'm in the first category. Those in the second are f*cking exhausting.'

Morgan also posted the famous picture of Vinnie Jones grabbing Paul Gascoigne by the crotch in a football match between Wimbledon and Newcastle United in February 1988.



He captioned it: 'We used to all laugh at this kind of thing... #TheWorldsGoneNuts'.

Wales captain Jones wasn't impressed, saying after the match: 'Hopefully, World Rugby have a look at it. Joe is a good bloke and lots happens on a rugby field.

'A lot of footage was shown, a lot of supporters have seen what happened — it's just very frustrating.

'We talk a lot about the TMO footage and review but not a lot's happened. It's difficult as captain because you feel you can't speak to the referee about anything.

'I looked at the touch judge but he didn't see what happened.'

Harlequins player Marler is set to learn on Monday whether he must attend a hearing to answer for his actions after citing officer Peter Ferguson visited the Welsh dressing room to discuss the incident.

In principle, Marler could face a ban of between 12 weeks and four years, but there is no prospect of a higher-end sanction as that would be reserved for actions which caused pain and harm.

Furthermore, Sportsmail has learned that he is more likely to face a disrepute charge, rather than the more specific charge of 'grabbing, twisting or squeezing the genitals'.

[BoSoxGal]

I guess I’m fucking exhausting because I don’t think it’s funny to go around grabbing other people’s genitalia.

[Gob]

Don't play international men's rugby then.

[BoSoxGal]

Since the article you posted includes negative reaction from members of the league and officials as well, I’m confident in assuming that your Neanderthal reaction is not uniform and I suspect, even in the hyper-testosterone world of men’s sport, rapidly falling out of fashion in the younger fan base.

[MajGenl.Meade]

What's the point of a "touch judge" if he or she doesn't?

[Gob]

[Crackpot]

There is no middleground between “harmless Joke” and “sexual assault”?!

Is there any wonder people are in a snit if these are the only fucking options?

[Bicycle Bill]

What Crackpot said.  Nowadays, it's either black or white.  Whatever happened to the concept of shades of grey?
Or is that just a book/movie title now?

-"BB"-

[Gob]

Well put C-P!

Joe gave Alun a bit of niggle, to see if he could get him to react. He didn't get it.

[Lord Jim]

Seems like something one should expect in a sport that features group hugs...

[Guinevere]

Do you guys (and I mean the male respondents) not get

oh never mind, I don't have the energy to explain it to you, you're the ones who are exhausting.

[BoSoxGal]

Unwanted/uninvited touching of the genitalia is pretty much the definition of sexual assault in most US jurisdictions. Any culture of sport that embraces sexual assault as part of the game is twisted, as are the fans who celebrate it.

[Bicycle Bill]

Unwanted/uninvited touching of the genitalia is pretty much the definition of sexual assault in most US jurisdictions. Any culture of sport that embraces sexual assault as part of the game is twisted, as are the fans who celebrate it.

This didn't happen in the US.  Please stop trying to impose your own personal sense of right and wrong on the rest of the world, especially since you certainly aren't willing to quietly allow anyone else to express, let alone impose, theirs.

-"BB"-

[Guinevere]

Unwanted/uninvited touching of the genitalia is pretty much the definition of sexual assault in most US jurisdictions. Any culture of sport that embraces sexual assault as part of the game is twisted, as are the fans who celebrate it.

This didn't happen in the US. Please stop trying to impose your own personal sense of right and wrong on the rest of the world, especially since you certainly aren't willing to quietly allow anyone else to express, let alone impose, theirs.

-"BB"-

Explaining the *legal* standard isn't imposing "a personal sense of right and wrong."

As for BSG's opinion, are you telling a woman on this board to sit down and shut up, because you don't agree with her? A board where the tag line includes: "but above all argue!"

[Bicycle Bill]

Explaining the *legal* standard isn't imposing "a personal sense of right and wrong."

Now read her second line, where she states "Any culture of sport that embraces sexual assault as part of the game is twisted, as are the fans who celebrate it."  That's a pretty good example of imposing a personal sense of right and wrong, wouldn't you agree?

As for BSG's opinion, are you telling a woman on this board to sit down and shut up, because you don't agree with her? A board where the tag line includes: "but above all argue!"

No, in fact I am not, although in hindsight I suppose it could be viewed that way.  But that's only because I was trying to find a way to respond to BSG in a civilized, polite, and respectful manner — note that I even said "please"! — rather than go with the usual response to a dissenter around here, which seems to be various levels and degrees of "fuck you!"   
Trust me when I tell you that I would say — and in fact have said the same thing, more or less — to Lord Jim or Crackpot or Meade or xKA or wesw or any other poster here, regardless of gender.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

Unwanted/uninvited touching of the genitalia is pretty much the definition of sexual assault in most US jurisdictions. Any culture of sport that embraces sexual assault as part of the game is twisted, as are the fans who celebrate it.

This didn't happen in the US.  Please stop trying to impose your own personal sense of right and wrong on the rest of the world, especially since you certainly aren't willing to quietly allow anyone else to express, let alone impose, theirs.

-"BB"-

United Kingdom
England and Wales
Sexual assault is a statutory offence in England and Wales. It is created by section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 which defines "sexual assault" as when a person (A)
intentionally touches another person (B),
the touching is sexual,
B does not consent to the touching, and
A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

I suppose the argument can turn on the meaning of sexual, but here generally the grabbing of the sexual genitalia is usually assumed to fall into that category. Perhaps in this context it is an assault on the victim’s manhood versus intended for the sexual gratification of the perpetrator- but on a plain reading it sure looks and smells like sexual assault to me.

As disgusting as football is over here, I’m glad penis and testicle grabbing isn’t considered ‘all in good fun’ by our league or fans.

[Joe Guy]

In my personal life, before I became an old white misogynist, I once kicked someone in the nuts who was threatening me. I wasn't arrested for sexual assault. In fact, some people who saw it laughed.

Those were the good old days when men were men and women didn't complain all the time about not being treated like men.

Also, don't those rugby players wear any wiener protection? If not, they deserve a twisted nut for being so stupid.

[rubato]

Sure. It is all fun and games until the 'victim' thinks its rough seduction. Then laughter turns to tears.


yrs,
rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

I played quite a lot of rugby between about 15 and 26. (Second row and wing three quarter, since you ask.) I never felt the urge to grab someone by the balls nor did anyone I played against. (Well they might have felt the urge but they didn't act on it. I'll never know.)

In cricket you wear a box although those at the link seem to more high tech than the ones we had. You wear it when batting or if fielding stupidly close to the batsman in a position such as silly mid off - so called because it's a fucking silly place to stand when the batsman may be inclined to attempt to remove important bits of you by launching the ball at speed in your general direction. I never heard of a rugby box, though.

[Gob]

I suppose the argument can turn on the meaning of sexual, but here generally the grabbing of the sexual genitalia is usually assumed to fall into that category. Perhaps in this context it is an assault on the victim’s manhood versus intended for the sexual gratification of the perpetrator- but on a plain reading it sure looks and smells like sexual assault to me.

But there was no grabbing involved, was there?

As disgusting as football is over here, I’m glad penis and testicle grabbing isn’t considered ‘all in good fun’ by our league or fans.

But no one has said it was "all in good fun", have they?