The Countdown to the restart of the economy has begun.

[Joe Guy]

So, this COVID-19 thing is really just the democrats trying to create a depression to make Trump look bad? You mean it's a big hoax?

Oh, I get it now. It's a conspiracy!

[Darren]

So, this COVID-19 thing is really just the democrats trying to create a depression to make Trump look bad? You mean it's a big hoax?

Oh, I get it now. It's a conspiracy!

Nope! It's not a conspiracy. It's lots of people pissed off that the country will be coming back up to speed and Trump will get lots of atta boys from his base. At least the Democrats didn't lose any votes in the big cities ... if you catch my drift.

There is a caveat. I'm sure you're on top of Homeland Security's orders from headquarters so there's no reason to bore you repeating it.

[BoSoxGal]

Very clever of us to convince the rest of the planet to join into the hoax, at massive cost to them. Perhaps the whole planet just hates Trump that much?

[BoSoxGal]

Isn’t this a permanent state for Canadians?

[Darren]

Very clever of us to convince the rest of the planet to join into the hoax, at massive cost to them. Perhaps the whole planet just hates Trump that much?

Did I say it was a hoax?

BTW, how about those Swedes? Are they great or what?

[Scooter]

Yeah, funeral homes are doing booming business.

[BoSoxGal]

I have been following Sweden and I admit to having some feeling that they chose the right approach that will be best in the long term for mitigating loss of life without totally destroying the economy short term - and for some, long term economic crippling and devastating life changes.

I raised this in that thread I started and the reception was so ice cold I retreated, but I will be curious to see what the long term outcomes will be there compared to other countries, including USA. But, I think it’s probably really important to consider that the population here is likely not so amenable to self-control and self-imposed social distancing and reducing movement and public interactions as the Swedes have been - Americans are clearly just not a terribly rational people overall, by comparison. So many people here struggle with understanding or ‘believing’ science that I don’t know they would have grasped the reasons for the polite government request to stay home more and stay away from their old relatives without a directive imposing it on them. We’ve done so well complying that maybe I’m very wrong, but it’s hard to know in a country that would elect someone like Trump and so many people rabidly support him, how many citizens are rubes and how many are reasonable?


This piece is interesting reading on the Swedish approach, for anyone who is open minded enough to consider that maybe they haven’t done a terrible, horrible, no good thing.

In Sweden, Will Voluntary Self-Isolation Work Better Than State-Enforced Lockdowns in the Long Run?

[Lord Jim]

This piece is interesting reading on the Swedish approach, for anyone who is open minded enough to consider that maybe they haven’t done a terrible, horrible, no good thing.

Unfortunately, all the comparative data suggests they are in fact doing a terrible, horrible, no good thing...

[Lord Jim]

Thankfully, those who want to see restrictions lifted before it is safe to do so remain a small lunatic fringe.

This.

Unfortunately, the death-wish lunatics are getting publicity waaaay out of proportion to the tiny nutcase minority status all the polling indicates they have...

When they cover these loonies, I think the media has an obligation to continuously point out the relatively small number involved.

[Lord Jim]

Even a lot of the businesses The Butcher is claiming to want to help are pushing back against his murderous lunacy:

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp faces resistance over move to reopen economy

CNN)Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp is running into resistance from mayors and businesses who fear a new wave of coronavirus infections as he seeks an early end to his state's shutdown.

Kemp, a Republican and staunch ally of President Donald Trump, on Monday announced Georgia would allow nail salons, massage therapists, bowling alleys and gyms to open Friday. In-person church services can resume. And restaurants and movie theaters can open Monday. His order also bars cities from imposing their own restrictions on businesses.
It's the most aggressive move yet to reopen a state's economy as Trump optimistically pushes for a May 1 end to some statewide lockdowns.

It also came as a surprise to mayors and some members of Kemp's own coronavirus task force.
In Georgia, mayors are pushing back, some businesses are saying they'll keep their doors closed and even Trump allies are questioning whether Kemp is moving too quickly.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, whose state is moving toward a more limited reopening, tweeted Tuesday: "I worry that our friends and neighbors in Georgia are going too fast too soon."

"We respect Georgia's right to determine its own fate, but we are all in this together," Graham, a Republican, said. "What happens in Georgia will impact us in South Carolina."

Kemp was among the last governors to sign a shelter-in-place order on April 2. He was also mocked for admitting on April 1 that he had only just learned that asymptomatic people could spread the coronavirus -- information that had been widely known for months.

Data collected by Johns Hopkins University shows that as of Tuesday, Georgia had seen 19,884 cases of coronavirus and had recorded 802 deaths resulting from the virus.

"In the same way that we carefully closed businesses and urged operations to end to mitigate the virus' spread, today we're announcing plans to incrementally and safely reopen sectors of our economy," Kemp told reporters Monday.
Mayors in Georgia are pushing back against Kemp's decision.

"I have searched my head and my heart on this and I am at a loss as to what the governor is basing this decision on," Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, a Democrat, told CNN.

She said she is considering legal options for a city that she said is "not out of the woods yet."

"You have to live to fight another day. And you have to be able to be amongst the living to be able to recover," she said.
Kelly Girtz, the Democratic mayor of Athens, told CNN he would "not in the least" recommend going to gyms, tattoo parlors or bowling alleys on Friday. Gritz said he first wanted to see a dramatic increase in coronavirus testing and a sustained downward trend in confirmed cases.

"We're not going to frequent businesses right now because we don't feel safe. We're not going to return to work," he said the area's residents have told him. "I've had a number of hair salon owners approach me over the last day and say we're not opening our doors back up because we care about our employees and we care about our clients."

Some businesses said they would not follow Kemp's guidance and would keep their doors closed.

SoulCycle studios in Georgia will not open on Friday even though they're allowed to, announced Harvey Spevak, the chairman of Equinox Group, which owns SoulCycle. Instead, he said, the company is working with infectious disease experts to determine when and how to reopen.

Celebrities who own Georgia businesses, including former professional wrestler Diamond Dallas Page, who owns a gym, and rapper Killer Mike, who owns barber shops, told TMZ they would not reopen Friday.

Stacey Abrams, Kemp's 2018 opponent and a 2020 Democratic vice presidential prospect, criticized Kemp's move Tuesday on MSNBC.

"The worry is that while trying to push a false opening of the economy, we risk putting more lives in danger, and there's nothing about this that makes sense," Abrams said.

Georgia's coronavirus cases have been concentrated most heavily in largely African American regions of the state, raising concerns that opening businesses too quickly would disproportionately hurt black communities.

The virus has hit southwestern Georgia particularly hard. Albany, Georgia, Mayor Bo Dorough said he is "very upset" that mayors have been blocked by Kemp from setting stricter guidelines for businesses to reopen.

"I am hoping that we have passed the peak. But then you read about the possibility of a second wave and I am obviously concerned about that," Dorough told CNN.

Reginald T. Jackson, the African Methodist Episcopal bishop in the Atlanta region, directed hundreds of AME churches to remain closed Sunday despite Kemp's order that would allow them to host services.

"There is no need to increase the possibility of more sickness and death by gathering prematurely," Jackson said in a statement. "We absolutely must increase testing, and flatten the curve before we begin to gather again."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/politics ... index.html

[BoSoxGal]

This piece is interesting reading on the Swedish approach, for anyone who is open minded enough to consider that maybe they haven’t done a terrible, horrible, no good thing.

Unfortunately, all the comparative data suggests they are in fact doing a terrible, horrible, no good thing...

That’s just not true. Or you didn’t read all the data.

[MajGenl.Meade]

This piece is interesting reading on the Swedish approach, for anyone who is open minded enough to consider that maybe they haven’t done a terrible, horrible, no good thing.

Unfortunately, all the comparative data suggests they are in fact doing a terrible, horrible, no good thing...

That’s just not true. Or you didn’t read all the data.

Data:
US deaths per million 137
Sweden deaths per million 175 (and April 21 recorded their highest daily death number; so did the USA)

Switzerland is doing better than either but plucky little Belgium is awful: 518 per million now

So either the USA is doing brilliantly (I'm sure you agree with Donald ) or Sweden's done poorly.

[BoSoxGal]

If you want Sweden to look bad, compare it to the U.S. as a whole—120 deaths per million in Sweden vs. 94 in the U.S. according to Our World in Data's April 16 numbers. If you want Sweden to look good, compare it to New York state, which is at a more similar stage to us in the virus's spread—120 vs. 580.

More in the article about the manipulation/unreliability of data.

Santa Clara has just released information that establishes the first US covid19 death as February 6, not the previously understood February 29. There are thousands of covid19 deaths going uncounted in the USA because we don’t have fucking tests - coroners all over the country are sounding the alarm on this issue, read the articles they’re everywhere - we are only capturing hospital and nursing home deaths, not the very many died at homes. The USA death rate of 45,000 is at once sickening and laughable - we probably have 60,000 already, at very least.

Coronavirus Death in California Came Weeks Before First Known U.S. Death

[Lord Jim]

That’s just not true.

I'm sorry, but that absolutely is true, at least if saving lives is your top consideration (which it clearly should be, for any civilized society)

The numbers are irrefutable:

Deaths Per Million:

Sweden- 175
Norway-34
Denmark-64

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

California-34

(Don't know about you but I much prefer living under California's approach than I would Sweden's, thank you very much.)

Again, if saving lives is the top of mind consideration, the data is very clear cut. The Swedish approach is a loser.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Just as I suspected. Nobody cares about plucky little Belgium

[BoSoxGal]

Nice try LJ, but see my post above. Beyond the critical issue of lack of testing keeping us from sensible containment of the virus now and going forward, lack of testing means we simply cannot rely on the coronavirus death rate as stated. Thousands are dying and not being counted. I’m guessing that difference of 26/million isn’t at all true.

[Lord Jim]

Of course there are countries with worse death-per-million rates than Sweden (largely these are in countries...like Italy, Spain, and the UK...that were slow to get shelter-at-home, social distancing and business shutdown orders in place.)

But that doesn't change the fact that the Swedish number sucks big time...

[BoSoxGal]

Except we cannot rely on our alleged number of 94/million BECAUSE WE AREN'T TESTING ALL THE CORPSES!!

[BoSoxGal]

The knee jerk responses are ridiculous, really.

[Lord Jim]

Nice try LJ, but see my post above. Beyond the critical issue of lack of testing keeping us from sensible containment of the virus now and going forward, lack of testing means we simply cannot rely on the coronavirus death rate as stated. Thousands are dying and not being counted. I’m guessing that difference of 26/million isn’t at all true.

Okay, so your argument isn't that the available data supports the Swedish approach, but that the data is somehow corrupted or unreliable...

I really don't doubt that our numbers are probably under counted, but I would argue that is likely to be the case across the board in most countries, including Sweden.