The Countdown to the restart of the economy has begun.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Catching Covid-19 once may not protect you from getting it again, according to the World Health Organization, a finding that could jeopardize efforts to allow people to return to work after recovering from the virus.

“There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from Covid-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection,” the United Nations agency said in an April 24 statement.

The WHO guidance came after some governments suggested that people who have antibodies to the coronavirus could be issued an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate” that would allow them to travel or return to work, based on the assumption that they were safe from re-infection, according to the statement. People issued such a certificate could ignore public-health guidance, increasing the risk of the disease spreading further

Not that it doesn't protect you from getting it again - but there is, as yet, no evidence that it can. We have to expose a whole bunch of "recovered" people to the virus and see what happens. Darrel . . . step up to the plate old boy. You seem sure of it.

[Darren]

Catching Covid-19 once may not protect you from getting it again, according to the World Health Organization, a finding that could jeopardize efforts to allow people to return to work after recovering from the virus.

“There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from Covid-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection,” the United Nations agency said in an April 24 statement.

The WHO guidance came after some governments suggested that people who have antibodies to the coronavirus could be issued an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate” that would allow them to travel or return to work, based on the assumption that they were safe from re-infection, according to the statement. People issued such a certificate could ignore public-health guidance, increasing the risk of the disease spreading further

Not that it doesn't protect you from getting it again - but there is, as yet, no evidence that it can. We have to expose a whole bunch of "recovered" people to the virus and see what happens. Darrel . . . step up to the plate old boy. You seem sure of it.

That's popped up a lot lately. Google shows that at the top of searches. Using the negative sign still works as does Duck Go Go. To the contrary the plasma therapy is working.

The Mayo Clinic and its cooperating hospitals along with the Red Cross are seeking donors that recovered and tested positive for antibodies to the coronavirus.

What to believe?

Do you believe major medical or medically related institutions or some random doctor Joe that gets a couple minutes on the network news? I'll take the Mayo Clinic for $1,000, Alex.

"In coordination with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Red Cross is seeking people who are fully recovered from the new coronavirus to sign up to donate plasma to help current COVID-19 patients.

People who have fully recovered from COVID-19 have antibodies in their plasma that can attack the virus. This convalescent plasma is being evaluated as treatment for patients with serious or immediately life-threatening COVID-19 infections, or those judged by a healthcare provider to be at high risk of progression to severe or life-threatening disease."

https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-bl ... ients.html

[MajGenl.Meade]

Do you normally have difficulty with comprehension?

I wote:

Not that it doesn't protect you from getting it again - but there is, as yet, no evidence that it can

Do you believe that? If so, then you and I agree.

The Mayonnaise Clinic is interested in finding out if it does or does not. So stop being silly about TV doctors when Dr. WHO declares a little caution is in order

[BoSoxGal]

NY State has reported an 80% mortality rate in ventilated patients. Ventilation is hard on the body and the longer it lasts, the harder it is - especially as the inflammation caused by covid19 is requiring very high ventilation pressure in order to get oxygenation, which damages the lung tissue and makes the body more reliant on the ventilator.

The harsh reality is that at present time with current treatment therapies in use, only 1/5 of ventilated patients are surviving. We seem to actually have a worse overall success rate than China - although I don’t believe any of the data from China can really be trusted. There is no way that they had under 4000 deaths from covid19 in such a densely populated city as Wuhan.

[RayThom]

COVID and ventilators. Best if you're younger than 18. Otherwise, it's a crap shoot.

New study finds nearly all coronavirus patients put on ventilators died

...The mortality rate for all patients placed on mechanical ventilation was 88.1%, or 282 patients.

Analyzed by age group, mortality rates for patients aged 18 to 65 were 76.4 percent. For the next oldest age group, ages 66 years and older, patients receiving mechanical ventilation recorded a 97.2 percent mortality rate.

There were no deaths for patients placed on ventilators who were younger than age 18..."

https://thehill.com/changing-america/we ... -placed-on

[Lord Jim]

There appear to be some pretty dramatic revisions going on regarding the death rates of those put on ventilators...

(So dramatic in fact that I'm puzzled as to how the initial counting could have been so far off. I guess it was because the sample size was so small...)

About a quarter of Covid-19 patients put on ventilators in New York's largest health system died, study finds


By Maggie Fox, CNN
Updated 8:59 AM ET, Sun April 26, 2020

(CNN)About a quarter of coronavirus patients who needed ventilators to help them breathe died within the first few weeks of treatment, a study of New York's largest health system showed.

It found that, overall, about 20% of Covid-19 patients treated at Northwell Health died, and 25% of those placed on ventilators died. A ventilator is a device that forces air into the lungs of patients who cannot breathe on their own because of severe pneumonia or acute respiratory distress syndrome.

Other, smaller reports have indicated that patients who need ventilation are unlikely to survive.
About 20% of the patients in the study needed ventilators, Dr. Safiya Richardson at the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research, Northwell Health, and colleagues found.

This study, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, describes the outlook for patients with severe Covid-19 disease. The report originally said that 12% of patients needed ventilators and that 88% of them had died.
But Karina Davidson, senior vice president of research at Northwell Health, said Saturday her team decided to clarify the wording of the report.

"We are updating our figures," she told CNN. "These are updated for how many we know have had an outcome and how many remain in the hospital."

The original report in JAMA stated that 12% of patients required ventilation and of them 88% died -- but those numbers only represented a minority of patients whose outcome was known, not the entire body of patients. The updated numbers include all of the patients, including those who remained in the hospital at the time the data was gathered on April 4.

The team looked at the electronic health records of 5,700 patients with coronavirus disease hospitalized at Northwell Health. Final outcomes were known for 2,634 of them. Davidson said 1,151 patients required ventilators. Of them, just 3.3% were discharged from the hospital by April 4, the day the records were collected. Another 282, or 24.5%, died and 831 -- 72% -- remained in the hospital, Richardson said.

The records support what doctors have been saying about the coronavirus: most people who become severely ill have some sort of so-called underlying condition. More than half, or 57%, had high blood pressure, 41% were obese and 34% had diabetes.

"Of the patients who died, those with diabetes were more likely to have received invasive mechanical ventilation or care in the ICU compared with those who did not have diabetes," the researchers wrote.

They also confirmed that men were more likely to die than women, and no one under the age of 18 died.

The symptoms of infection were far from clear-cut. About a third of all patients showed up with fevers, 17% were breathing too fast and just under 30% needed extra oxygen. On average, patients were sent home after four days.

But 14% were treated in intensive care, 3% needed intensive dialysis and 21% died.

Since final data was only available on about half of the patients, it's likely that the rates of survival will change considerably, the researchers said.

"This study reported mortality rates only for patients with definite outcomes (discharge or death), and a longer-term study may find different mortality rates as different segments of the population are infected," the Northwell Health team wrote.

[Darren]

Quest and Labcorp are two of the big labs that offer testing for medical providers. If your company requires drug testing and doesn't take samples in house, chances are you'll be directed to an outlet of one of these companies.

Quest offering the antibody test is an indicator of how widespread testing is becoming. That is excellent news.

"SECAUCUS, N.J., April 21, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Quest Diagnostics (NYSE: DGX), the world's leading provider of diagnostic information services, today announced that it has begun to perform antibody testing for coronavirus (COVID-19) using blood samples. With the new service, Quest Diagnostics now provides healthcare providers in the United States access to COVID-19 antibody as well as molecular diagnostic laboratory testing.

Quest Diagnostics Incorporated logo. (PRNewsFoto/Quest Diagnostics Incorporated)

Antibodies developed by the body in response to a viral infection may provide potential immunity against future infection. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, COVID-19 antibody testing may indicate that "the person has been exposed to the virus and developed antibodies against it, which may mean that person has at least some immunity to the coronavirus." Antibody testing uses blood serum specimens and is sometimes referred to as serology testing."

https://newsroom.questdiagnostics.com/2 ... dy-Testing

[Bicycle Bill]

When I got my job I had to take a piss test for drug screening, and it still took three days for results to come back... and this was for something that they already know how to check for, and have known for decades.

Just because there are testing methods available does not mean
a) there are enough testing materials/facilities to cope with demand, and
b) useful and accurate results will be produced in a timely manner.

-"BB"-

[Darren]

When I got my job I had to take a piss test for drug screening, and it still took three days for results to come back... and this was for something that they already know how to check for, and have known for decades.

Just because there are testing methods available does not mean
a) there are enough testing materials/facilities to cope with demand, and
b) useful and accurate results will be produced in a timely manner.

-"BB"-

If you've read about Abbott's tests those provide results in minutes. That's why drive through testing is spreading throughout the country,

The last time I was piss tested the company had my results the next day. That was almost ten years ago.

[Scooter]

No matter how many new tests are produced based on the same modalities, testing can't be ramped up without somehow building massive new supply lines of reagents and swabs.

If, as one infectious disease doc said this morning, we could get to a reliable saliva test where all anyone would have to do is spit in a tube and send it off to a lab, that might get you to the millions of tests per day that will be required to get a handle on who is infected, as opposed to the 200,000 per day ceiling that now limits any initiative to expand testing.

[Darren]

We don't have to test everybody. That's where math come into play.

You do need enough tests to have a high confidence level. It's basic quality assurance.

[Darren]

And they're off.

"At one point, over 90% of the US population was under mandatory lockdown orders, but some states began lifting orders over the weekend allowing some Americans to return to hair salons and tattoo parlours.

Georgia, Oklahoma, Alaska and South Carolina have already allowed some businesses to reopen. They and other states have issued plans that call for more rules to be relaxed in the coming week.

Colorado's Democratic Governor Jared Polis has said kerb-side retail pickup can begin on Monday, with hair salons, barbershop and tattoo parlours allowed to reopen on Friday.

Tennessee will allow restaurants to reopen on Monday, the same day that Mississippi's mandatory lockdown order expires.

Montana's governor has allowed churches to reopen starting on Sunday, with social distancing measures still required. Restaurants and schools will be allowed to reopen on 7 May.

Eight states led by Republican governors - Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming - never issued mandatory orders to stay at home."

[Darren]

Expect much more disobedience.

Empty hospitals going back to work, the governor of PA's unessential old business still operating, mayors telling governors to screw off... cats cohabitating with dogs,

"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — The mayor of a small New Mexico city announced Thursday that he will allow small businesses to reopen next week in defiance of the governor's order that shuttered nonessential businesses to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

Grants Mayor Martin “Modey” Hicks said he's giving businesses permission to reopen on Monday and is ordering the police force in the city of about 9,000 people to prevent any State Police officers from issuing lockdown violation citations."

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article ... nYoCalgd3E

[Econoline]

Expect much more disobedience.

And this is good news? Why? 'Splain, please?

[Darren]

Did I say it was good news?

It is was it is.

The country is going back to work whether certain governors lead, follow or don't get out of the way.

[Scooter]

allowing some Americans to return to hair salons and tattoo parlours

Someone needs to explain this to me, because this seems to be a common denominator of several states (and we can add nail salons to the list).

These are businesses that exist purely for aesthetic purposes; their services have no utilitarian value whatsoever. But they are also business that require close, intimate contact with customers, a very literally hands on, breathing each other's air kind of contact, and therefore clearly posing a hightened risk of exposure to respiratory pathogens.

So why, out of all the businesses now shuttered, would these particular industries be prioritized to restart?

[Darren]

allowing some Americans to return to hair salons and tattoo parlours

Someone needs to explain this to me, because this seems to be a common denominator of several states (and we can add nail salons to the list).

These are businesses that exist purely for aesthetic purposes; their services have no utilitarian value whatsoever. But they are also business that require close, intimate contact with customers, a very literally hands on, breathing each other's air kind of contact, and therefore clearly posing a hightened risk of exposure to respiratory pathogens.

So why, out of all the businesses now shuttered, would these particular industries be prioritized to restart?

Let me make a wild ass guess.

Could it be they need to feed their families and pay their bills too?

[Darren]

allowing some Americans to return to hair salons and tattoo parlours

Someone needs to explain this to me, because this seems to be a common denominator of several states (and we can add nail salons to the list).

These are businesses that exist purely for aesthetic purposes; their services have no utilitarian value whatsoever. But they are also business that require close, intimate contact with customers, a very literally hands on, breathing each other's air kind of contact, and therefore clearly posing a hightened risk of exposure to respiratory pathogens.

So why, out of all the businesses now shuttered, would these particular industries be prioritized to restart?

Let me make a wild ass guess.

Could it be they need to feed their families and pay their bills too?

Spare me the "Omigod we're all going to die" sob story. People are in danger of dying due to the cancellation of elective surgery by the now empty hospitals.

[Bicycle Bill]

Because the people who patronize them want to look good at their own funerals?

-"BB"-

[Darren]

Someone needs to explain this to me, because this seems to be a common denominator of several states (and we can add nail salons to the list).

These are businesses that exist purely for aesthetic purposes; their services have no utilitarian value whatsoever. But they are also business that require close, intimate contact with customers, a very literally hands on, breathing each other's air kind of contact, and therefore clearly posing a hightened risk of exposure to respiratory pathogens.

So why, out of all the businesses now shuttered, would these particular industries be prioritized to restart?

Let me make a wild ass guess.

Could it be they need to feed their families and pay their bills too?

Spare me the "Omigod we're all going to die" sob story. People are in danger of dying due to the cancellation of elective surgery by the now empty hospitals.