Remember hanging chads?

[Sue U]

I assume that if it was found that someone had voted by mail then one of the ballots (most likely the mail-in ballot, since the day-of-election ballot would supersede the mail-in ballot in much the same way that the most-recently documented copy of a person's will would override an earlier draft/copy) would be invalidated/destroyed; but doesn't that mean that there would have to be some way to determine just WHICH mail-in ballot that was? Wouldn't that be a contravention of the "secret ballot" principle?

-"BB"-

I would actually assume it was the other way around. Once you've voted, you've voted; you don't get a do-over if you change your mind.

[BoSoxGal]

I just called to check on my status and to offer to volunteer at the polls too. I’m on the list if they need me - apparently they even pay you! I probably won’t be needed and I likely shouldn’t expose myself but I was thinking I could sit at an outside station to reduce my risk.

I decided not to do the mail in as our mail has been quite slow and I don’t want my vote to get buried in a bag at USPS. I’m especially keen to vote the primary here and will early vote next Monday - want to keep our progressive Senator Ed Markey even though I like Joe Kennedy III.

[BoSoxGal]

I assume that if it was found that someone had voted by mail then one of the ballots (most likely the mail-in ballot, since the day-of-election ballot would supersede the mail-in ballot in much the same way that the most-recently documented copy of a person's will would override an earlier draft/copy) would be invalidated/destroyed; but doesn't that mean that there would have to be some way to determine just WHICH mail-in ballot that was? Wouldn't that be a contravention of the "secret ballot" principle?

-"BB"-

I would actually assume it was the other way around. Once you've voted, you've voted; you don't get a do-over if you change your mind.

I agree; I should think that the second ballot would be considered an act of fraud unless somehow the voter was directed by election officials to vote again.

[Sue U]

Under [Gov. Phil] Murphy’s order, county clerks must mail ballots with prepaid postage to voters by Oct. 5.

You can either then mail in your ballot, drop it in a secure drop box being set up across the state, take it to one of the select physical polling locations, or vote by paper provisional ballot in person, Murphy said. Only people with disabilities will be able to vote via machine in person.

There will be at least one in-person polling location in each of New Jersey’s 565 municipalities.

The state will also set up at least 10 secure boxes in each county where you can drop your ballot.

If voting by mail, all ballots must be sent through the U.S. Postal Service, postmarked by Nov. 3, and received by county election boards by 8 p.m., Nov. 10 — a week after Election Day.

Ballots that lack postmarks because to postal error must be by 8 p.m. Thursday, Nov. 5 to be counted — 48 hours after in-person polls have closed.

”Unlike some other states, we will not look for ways to restrict the rights of voters to have their voices heard or to otherwise block access to the ballot,” Murphy said. “We are doing everything we can to ensure that every voter is heard.”

Source: NJ.com

[Bicycle Bill]

I assume that if it was found that someone had voted by mail then one of the ballots (most likely the mail-in ballot, since the day-of-election ballot would supersede the mail-in ballot in much the same way that the most-recently documented copy of a person's will would override an earlier draft/copy) would be invalidated/destroyed; but doesn't that mean that there would have to be some way to determine just WHICH mail-in ballot that was? Wouldn't that be a contravention of the "secret ballot" principle?

-"BB"-

I would actually assume it was the other way around. Once you've voted, you've voted; you don't get a do-over if you change your mind.

But then again, they'd have to know WHICH ballot to disqualify from all those cast at the polling place ... which again means that there would have to be a way to identify just which ballot was yours.  So much for ballot secrecy, I guess.

-"BB"-

[Sue U]

But then again, they'd have to know WHICH ballot to disqualify from all those cast at the polling place ... which again means that there would have to be a way to identify just which ballot was yours.  So much for ballot secrecy, I guess.

-"BB"-

But disqualified provisional ballot is not a vote; the previously cast mail-in ballot is the actual vote. So there would still be no way to tell from a DQ'ed provisional ballot who you actually voted for. Maybe you changed your mind, maybe you didn't, who's to say?

[Bicycle Bill]

But disqualified provisional ballot is not a vote; the previously cast mail-in ballot is the actual vote. So there would still be no way to tell from a DQ'ed provisional ballot who you actually voted for. Maybe you changed your mind, maybe you didn't, who's to say?

I won't pretend that I know how vote-by-mail is handled in the states that utilize it. When you request a vote-by-mail or absentee ballot, is it noted in the voter registration rolls that "John Doe" has requested an absentee or vote-by-mail ballot so that one cannot then try to cast a fraudulent in-person ballot?

I was thinking about the standard ballot we get where I vote in western Wisconsin.  Once you have shown your photo ID to the clerk, your name is found in the roll of registered voters.  There are two clerks, each with a book, and the entries in each book must match.  The clerk marks you off and you sign your name, and then you are given your ballot — a single sheet of stiff paper almost like cardstock, sometimes printed on both sides, depending on the number of races being contested and whether there are any referenda being voted on as well.  One marks it by filling in a circle like those old computer-scored tests back in school, and then the voter himself feeds the ballot into a machine which scans and tabulates the vote immediately.  The only other marks on the ballot are where the election clerks have initialed it.  So if it were to turn out that you HAD also voted by mail, I don't know how, at the end of the day, they would know which ballot was yours.

I have helped my mother in her later years when she was voting absentee due to her age-related infirmities including low vision, and I do know that once she registered herself as an "absentee voter" she was sent an absentee ballot for every election (and I assume her name did not appear on the roll books at the polling precinct), but I have never cast a provisional ballot so I don't know what the format is — although the mere fact it is called a 'provisional ballot' makes it sound like it is different from the normal, ordinary vote-in-person ballot. Does the provisional have to carry your name or some other form of identification on it?

-"BB"-

[Gob]

What sort of democracy are you having this week?

[BoSoxGal]

A provisional ballot is a whole different thing than a mail in or absentee ballot.

Here’s a blurb from California’s voter info that captures the issues:

Voting at a Polling Place after Applying to Vote by Mail

Even if you receive your vote-by-mail ballot, you can change your mind and vote at a polling place on Election Day. To do so, you can:

Mark your ballot and seal it inside the mailing envelope provided by your county elections official. Be sure to sign and date the outside of the envelope in the space provided. Then bring the sealed envelope to any polling place in your county, or to your county elections office between 7:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. on Election Day.
OR
Bring your unused vote-by-mail ballot to your local polling place anytime between 7:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. on Election Day and give it to a poll worker, who will exchange it for a polling place ballot you can use instead.


If you do not bring your vote-by-mail ballot with you, you will not lose your opportunity to vote at a polling place on Election Day. A poll worker will provide you with a provisional ballot, which will be counted after your county elections official has confirmed you are registered to vote in that county and did not vote more than once in that election.

In most (if not all) jurisdictions, provisional ballots only get verified and then counted if an election is very close such that their numbers might make a difference to the result.

[Sue U]

I won't pretend that I know how vote-by-mail is handled in the states that utilize it. When you request a vote-by-mail or absentee ballot, is it noted in the voter registration rolls that "John Doe" has requested an absentee or vote-by-mail ballot so that one cannot then try to cast a fraudulent in-person ballot?

The way it works here is that once you are sent a mail-in/absentee ballot, it is noted on the registration roll. (This year, for the general election, every registered voter will get a mail-in ballot.) If you show up to a polling place and try to vote in-person, you would only be permitted to fill out a provisional ballot, which would be set aside and only counted after confirmation that your mail-in ballot was not returned to the elections board. I assume it will be substantially the same process we used in the primaries: your ballot is sealed in an envelope that goes inside another envelope with a removable tag on the outside for verification of the voter. If after tabulation of the regular votes there is no other ballot returned for the provisional voter, the provisional ballot is counted. It's a pretty transparent and easy-to-understand procedure.