2020 Election results

[Big RR]

We're all being silly taking Darren's posts as serious; it's just his attempt at humor. A feeble attempt to be sure, but he does his best.

Face it, no one who can use a computer, or who can count to 21 without dropping his pants, could seriously believe that bullshit, let alone seriously want Congress to overturn the will of the people. As much as I detest Rump, and there are few people on this earth I detest more, if Trump won in the electoral college I would not want Biden elected that way, and I doubt anyone here would.

[Sue U]

Face it, no one who can use a computer, or who can count to 21 without dropping his pants, could seriously believe that bullshit, let alone seriously want Congress to overturn the will of the people.

Yet this is exactly what the Republican Party has come to: 18 state attorneys general and 160 members of Congress actively attempting to overturn the election in a naked power-grab to keep a petty tyrant in office. This is some actual banana republic shit:

"Ruling party ignores election result, seeks to invalidate opposition victory."

This is not a headline about Venezuela or Bolivia or Belarus.

[Darren]

Lets just carefully examine the 12th Amendment, and point out how Darren is completely ignoring the procedure set forth.

Here’s the Amendment in full:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;-The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President-The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

Here are my annotations:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;-

This is what happened today. The Electors met, and they voted as directed by the voters of their states. 306 votes for Biden and 232 for Trump.

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-

Pence and a bucket of warm spit get to preside over the counting, via the reports of the electors, in a joint session

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed;

Whoever gets the majority (i.e., at least 270 votes) wins. Congress has no authority to override the reports of the electors. It only gets to count them and report the count. There is no realistic way to hijack these proceedings or otherwise change the vote. The electors have not only voted, they have announced the certifications of their votes. To do anything otherwise than read and certify the count would be illegal, a coup, and most certainly sedition.

and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.

If there is no candidate with a majority — but of course there is— the House choses the President, by ballot

But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.

If the House must chose, from the top 3 candidates, they do vote en bloc - each state receiving one vote. The representatives must agree on the vote to be cast, and typically if there is not agreement, they do not cast a ballot. 26 votes are needed to win. So nicely theoretical, but as I said above, there is no Constitutionally valid basis to do anything but certify the vote. Even if there is an objection to the certification from the floor, such a motion would be out of order and should not be heard.

And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President-

If no winner, the VP acts as President. But again, anything other than the confirmation of Joe Biden as President is treasonous, seditious, fantasy.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President;

The VP is chosen by the Senate, one vote per Senator (no en bloc voting), from the top two candidates for VP. In case you missed it, Kamala Harris will be confirmed as the Vice President, consistent with the votes if the electors.

Finally, I note that both the House and Senate Parliamentarians could be involved in advising on these procedures. They are excellent lawyers, neutral to the bone, and will get it right.

What happens when the electors are contested? Does everyone expect the status quo to remain so until the opening of those envelopes?

[MajGenl.Meade]

The answer to your questions, Darren, are "Nothing" and "Yes".

Also, Francisco Franco is still dead

[ex-khobar Andy]

Also, Francisco Franco is still dead

Yes but I'm not sure about his buddy Benito.

[liberty]

If you want elections to be accepted as honest, elections have to be beyond reproach in terms of the vote. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the ballot boxes were not illegally stuffed? Since the Democrat party promotes voting by voters whose identity can’t be proved, you have to accepted that the election results are not trusted. That makes Biden an illegitimate president, like in a banana republic. Perhaps a picture of a banana needs to be placed on the flag while Biden is the fake president.

[Big RR]

and since Trump was elected 4 years ago in a closely contested election (where he lost the popular vote by a significant margin) under the same rules of voter identification, he similarly is an illegitimate president, but I didn't hear you bitching then. Or "can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt...".

As for beyond reproach, I still have seen no real evidence of fraud, nor have the courts or anyone else. To be accepted, Trump's minions would have to prove that, which they cannot. But as the old adage goes, first change the facts, then change the law if that doesn't work.

[Burning Petard]

"nor have the courts " The courts did not see, hell, Trump's lawyers did not eleven try to show any evidence! as the old law school joke has it, they did not have the law or the evidence on their side, so they just argued

I have heard on the 'main stream media' that we had record total turn-out for this election, with about one quarter of the citizens not voting for anybody.
With this major push in Georgia by both parties, both local and national--any guess as to the total turnout there?

snailgate

[Sue U]

Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the ballot boxes were not illegally stuffed?

Since you're making the allegation, the burden of proof is on you to show that they were. And in the forum where these claims are tested in this country, neither the Trump campaign nor the larger GOP has produced any actual evidence sufficient to convince even Trump-appointed judges that there is even a triable question of fact. The vast majority of the 60-some lawsuits don't even allege any fraud -- because there has to be some allegation of actual particularized facts for a genuine fraud claim to even exist -- and the few cases that have included "voter fraud" claims have been laughed out of court.

Since the Democrat party promotes voting by voters whose identity can’t be proved,

That is simply a lie. Where do you get this horseshit?

That makes Biden an illegitimate president, like in a banana republic. Perhaps a picture of a banana needs to be placed on the flag while Biden is the fake president.

Biden won the election by very substantial margins in both the popular vote and the electoral college, unlike Trump, who squeaked to an absurd electoral college win by margins of less than 1 percent in three states, despite being crushed nationally in the popular vote. And even so, the Democrats didn't go to the courts or the state legislatures trying to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans with false claims of electoral fraud. So suck it up and accept that Biden won,Trump lost.

Also, your ride is here:

[Burning Petard]

Liberty, can you show us any evidence that you did not vote eleventeen times in this recent election?

Can you show any evidence that The earth was not created twenty minutes ago, complete with all the apearance that you were born and data that there was a big bang and the universe is expanding and there is black matter, and the endless 'chicken crossing the road' thread, by the almighty Word of an omnipotent god?

snailgate

[Bicycle Bill]

H E Y ,    D A R R E N ! !

If you win I'll send you a cashiers check made out in the amount of the bet to the charity of your choice.

If I win make the check out to the Gun Owners of America. I'll PM you my address. I'll take a personal check.

Accepted.  Fifty bucks.  Like I said, BikeFed Wisconsin can use the money.
Or, if you insist on it being a national organization, I've got another bike-related group waiting in the wings.

So what will be the deciding factor?  The date Trump concedes ; the date the Electoral College votes; the day the EC results are certified; or Inauguration Day when Biden will actually take the oath of office?

Even Twitter has called it for Biden —

Twitter has updated a label placed on misleading claims made by Donald Trump and others, that declares Joe Biden to have won the election.  The message, which Twitter places on potentially misleading content on the site, now says the president-elect won the election, while it previously said the election was “disputed”.  Users on the site are now told that “Election officials have certified Joe Biden as the winner of the US Presidential election,” when they see a Twitter post that has the misinformation label.

It started to appear on tweets posted by the US president on Saturday morning, as he continued to make baseless allegations about the presidential election, which he lost to Mr. Biden.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 76759.html

You can PM me whenever you decide you want to be a man of your word.
Or you can continue to look like a conniving, chiseling cheat.

-"BB"-

[Sue U]

I hope the Arizona Republican Party has a whole lot of cash on hand, because they're gonna need it to pay the fees, costs and frivolous litigation sanctions that the court is clearly telegraphing it intends to assess. From yesterday's decision:

Arizona law requires election authorities to validate electronic vote counts by manually recounting random batches of ballots. For this process, called the “hand count audit,” election officials enlist representatives of Arizona’s political parties to sample and count the ballots.Following the 2020 general election, Republican, Democratic and Libertarian Party appointees hand-counted 2917 ballots cast on voting machines at polling places in Maricopa County, and 5000 additional early (mail-in) ballots. The hand counts verified that the machines had counted the votes flawlessly. Maricopa County, Arizona General Election - November 3, 2020 Hand Count/Audit Report (“Audit Report”), available at https://azsos.gov/election/2020-general ... nt-results (last visited December 9, 2020).

In this lawsuit, the plaintiff Arizona Republican Party asked for a court order directing the defendant Maricopa County officials to redo the hand count audit using different batches of ballots. The plaintiff baldly asserted that this relief was necessary to maintain “confidence in the integrity of our elections,” without alleging any facts to show that the machines might have miscounted the votes. The plaintiff could not explain why the suit had not been filed before the election, or what purpose another audit would serve.

This order explains why the Arizona Republican Party’s case was meritless, and the dismissal order filed November 19, 2020 was required, under applicable Arizona law. What remains is intervenor Arizona Secretary of State's application for an award of attorneys' fees. That application will require the Court to decide whether the Republican Party and its attorneys brought the case in bad faith to delay certification of the election or to cast false shadows on the election’s legitimacy. See Arizona Revised Statutes § 12-349(A) (court “shall” assess fees and costs against a party or attorney when the party’s claim is brought “without substantial justification” or “solely or primarily for delay”).

Read the full dismissal order here.

[Burning Petard]

Well, I read the post above with the words from the constitution. What am I missing?

"What happens when the electors are contested? Does everyone expect the status quo to remain so until the opening of those envelopes?"

I have read again Article II as amended of the federal constitution a few moments ago and I cannot find one word about the house or the senate "contesting" "challenging" "objecting" to anything if the certificates from the electors show a majority. To attack the individual electors would require a state-by-state action BEFORE the electoral college meets.

Amazing how the ability to read falters on anything to do with president trump.

snailgate

[MajGenl.Meade]

If Donald continues to argue that he won the 2020 election, does that mean he's ineligible to run for a third term in 2024?

[Bicycle Bill]

Darren, even Pat Robertson and Geraldo Rivera have come out and publicly acknowledged that Donald Trump's Götterdämmerung has come, and have urged him to accept it.

And Trump's actions since roughly the beginning of December of trying to implement as much of a 'scorched earth' policy as he possibly can by pissing and shitting all over everything before he finally heads off to whatever golf course will have him would seem to indicate that he too realizes he's lost and is on his way out.  After all, if you think you've won and will be staying in power, you don't trash the place you're going to be occupying, right?

So come on.  While I admire your sense of loyalty and devotion to the point that you were willing to shell out money on a lost cause, I can't condone the way you are figuratively jamming your fingers in your ears, squeezing your eyes tightly shut, and going "la-la-la-la-la-la-can't hear you!"

It's time for you to start the New Year out right.  Be a mensch and admit that it's over and you lost, and send me that PM so I can tell you to which organization you can donate the $50.00 you owe me.

-"BB"-

[dales]

I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Scooter]

Be a mensch and admit that it's over and you lost, and send me that PM so I can tell you to which organization you can donate the $50.00 you owe me.
-"BB"-

At the very least, demand to see a cancelled check or a receipt. When he was making the bets he was offering to send the checks to the respective winners for them to pass on, but you shouldn't need to provide him with your address in order for him to fulfill the bet.

[Bicycle Bill]

Be a mensch and admit that it's over and you lost, and send me that PM so I can tell you to which organization you can donate the $50.00 you owe me.
-"BB"-

At the very least, demand to see a cancelled check or a receipt. When he was making the bets he was offering to send the checks to the respective winners for them to pass on, but you shouldn't need to provide him with your address in order for him to fulfill the bet.

Don't think that's necessary, Scooter, but I will follow up with the charity I have in mind to see if in fact a donation of $50 was made.
And if if wasn't I would make it known on at least a weekly basis on this board that he is a welscher (spelling?) , as well as urge anyone else who posts in other locations where he tends to hang his hat to do the same thing.

-"BB"-

[Sue U]

Today the federal District Court in Atlanta tossed Lin Wood's latest pile of crazy trying to stop the Georgia Senate run-off because mail-in voting! Dominion machines!!! Hugo Chavez!!!!!! DROP BOXES!!!!!!11!!1!

The Court dope-slapped him for 20 pages, pointing out how (among other things) he was personally just told last month in another of his dumbass cases that he doesn't get standing to sue just because he has some batshit theory about how VOTER FRAUDS! might happen. And that even if it did happen, "vote dilution" is NOT A THING that creates a "particularized injury" conferring standing to sue, AS HAS BEEN THE RULE IN FEDERAL COURTS FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.

So FOH Lin Wood, and no you CANNOT have a hearing either.

[Econoline]

Hawaii Senator Karl Rhoads points out on Facebook:

Biden won. A lot of people voted Republican down ballot. You can’t throw out the Biden result without throwing out a bunch of Republicans too because THEIR NAMES WERE ON THE SAME BALLOT! This includes ALL Republican House members, some of whom plan to vote against the electoral college results. This means they are questioning the legitimacy of THEIR OWN ELECTIONS!