'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

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Bicycle Bill
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'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Crossed it?  Hell, they fucking pole-vaulted over it.
Remains of Nathan Bedford Forrest are being exhumed

Tensions Rise in Memphis as Slave Trader's Remains Are Removed

Traditionally, residents of Memphis, Tennessee, celebrate Juneteenth at Robert R. Church Park, named for the city’s first Black millionaire.

But this year, residents and city officials plan to celebrate the end of slavery 1 mile away, at a park where the remains of Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Confederate general and leader of the Ku Klux Klan who owned and traded enslaved workers, have been buried under a marble base since 1905.

Workers hired by the Sons of Confederate Veterans are digging up and removing the copper coffins that hold the remains of Forrest and his wife, Mary Ann. The remains and a statue of Forrest that had towered over the park, once named after the general, will be moved 200 miles away, to the National Confederate Museum in Columbia, Tennessee.

The excavation may take several weeks, according to Lee Millar, a spokesman for the group, which represents direct descendants of Confederate soldiers and promotes a revisionist view of the Civil War.

But even if the process is not completed by June 19, the Juneteenth celebration will take place at the park, now known as Health Sciences Park, according to Michalyn Easter-Thomas of the Memphis City Council.

“Having him there was like having him dance on our graves, the graves of our ancestors,” she said. “You can go quietly. We won’t miss you.”

The exhumation follows years of protests at the site, decades of demands from the city’s Black residents to remove the statue and the remains, and numerous court fights over what should happen to the burial site.

Tensions have erupted at the site since the excavation began. Debris from the burial site was dumped on a Black Lives Matter mural that had been painted around the base where Forrest’s statue had stood.

On Tuesday, Tami Sawyer, a Shelby County commissioner who had led a campaign to remove statues of Confederate leaders around Memphis, was heckled by a Sons of Confederate Veterans volunteer as she spoke to reporters at the site.

The volunteer, waving a Confederate flag, loudly sang “Dixie” (“I wish I was in the land of cotton, old times there are not forgotten”) as Sawyer described how her ancestors picked cotton.

Sawyer said in a statement that since then, she had been threatened on social media.

“As a public official, Commissioner Sawyer is not opposed to critique and heckling, but these messages are racially violent and threatening to her physical safety,” her office said in the statement.

Sgt. Louis Brownlee, a Memphis Police Department spokesman, said in an email that the department was investigating her complaints. No arrests have been made, he said.

Millar said a green security fence had been placed around the excavation site to keep the area secure and “to keep spectators away so no one would get involved and get hurt.”

He said that the volunteer began singing because Sawyer was disrupting the workers by holding a “press spectacle.”

The statues of Forrest and Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy, in Memphis Park were removed Dec. 20, 2017, the same night the City Council voted to sell both parks to the nonprofit organization Memphis Greenspace for $1,000 each.

The move allowed the city to skirt the Tennessee Heritage Protection Act, a state law that prohibits the removal, relocation or renaming of memorials on public property and that state officials had used before to keep the city from removing the statues.

After the City Council vote, cranes maneuvered into the parks and removed both statues as crowds cheered and struck up songs such as “Hit the Road Jack.”

The Sons of Confederate Veterans sued the city after the statues were removed and accused officials of violating a grave site and scheming to circumvent state law.

The organization later settled with the city, agreeing to drop the lawsuit in exchange for taking possession of the statues and the remains of Forrest and his wife.

Millar said it would cost about $200,000 to exhume the remains and move the coffins and the statue. The group raised the money for the project through donations.

Forrest’s remains will be taken to “a better place,” said Millar, who identified himself as a distant cousin of Forrest's and as a spokesman for his direct descendants.

“It’s sad you have to move a grave of anybody and particularly that of a veteran and a general like that, but it will be better for everybody,” he said.

The debate over what to do with statues of Forrest has divided Tennesseans over the years.

A Republican legislator proposed building a statue of Dolly Parton to replace a bust of Forrest that looms prominently in the Tennessee State Capitol. A petition calling for the replacement has amassed nearly 26,000 signatures.

Last June, Black legislators left the Capitol in tears and anger after proposals to remove the bust of Forrest and other divisive figures failed. In March, the Tennessee Historical Commission voted to remove the bust at the statehouse.

In Memphis, the monument to Forrest “was one of constant pain to the majority African American community,” Councilman Jeff Warren said. “The vast majority of our citizens are glad to see the statue and the remains go.”

Defenders of Forrest’s legacy said that detractors fail to recognize his military skills and that toward the end of his life, he called for racial reconciliation in a speech before the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, a fraternal organization of Black men.

But William Sturkey, a historian at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who has written about Forrest’s enduring hold on many white Southerners, said Forrest was “the most unrepentant soldier of maybe the entire conflict.”

Sturkey said he was doubtful the next burial site would acknowledge the fortune that Forrest made through the slave trade, his role in the Ku Klux Klan or his role in the massacre at Fort Pillow in 1864, when forces led by Forrest killed hundreds of Union soldiers, most of them Black, as they tried to surrender.

“I’m not optimistic it will be a useful and educational display,” he said. “But at least Black kids won’t have to look at it in Memphis.”
(https://www.yahoo.com/news/tensions-ris ... 40363.html – from a NT Times story, which is, of course, behind a paywall.)
So much for "eternal repose" and "resting in peace".  What's next — the vegans going to come for the grave of Harlan Sanders???

And, of course, they continue to make every black person — whether they come from Africa, Haiti, or even the aboriginal Australians — members of a single race by continuing to capitalize 'black'.  That's like saying because some Caucasians were from Mongolia, EVERY Caucasian is therefore of Mongol descent.

Oh, wait..... liberty already has tried claiming that ground with his "my people of the steppes" hogwash.
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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I support the removal of Confederate statues etc. to museums/historic preservation sites and so on.

Digging up someone's a-moldering corpse is distasteful but it happens all the time. Graveyards are disposed of in the modern world as and when private and public works require it. Forrest's remains are no more 'sacred' than someone's aunt Mary. He will always get there fastest with the moistest
Last edited by MajGenl.Meade on Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Crackpot
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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

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I agree they have gone to far disturbing their “rest” and “repose”. Reanimating is a step too far. … what they’re just relocating remains? Nevermind.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

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It's not as if they tossed the POS in the city dump, which would have been more honour than he deserved. The intact caskets are being moved to the National Traitors Museum, where Forrest would have no doubt felt completely at home, and where his corpse can serve as an object of worship for the wastes of space and oxygen who will flock there.
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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Sue U »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:00 pm
Crossed it?  Hell, they fucking pole-vaulted over it.
How is this "wokeness" "cross[ing] the line"? This is literally all the doing of the Sons of the Confederacy. Who is the "they" you are blaming -- just kidding, it's quite obvious that you're weirdly blaming Black folks for things that some rather obnoxious white people are actually doing.
GAH!

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Sue U wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:33 pm
Bicycle Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:00 pm
Crossed it?  Hell, they fucking pole-vaulted over it.
How is this "wokeness" "cross[ing] the line"? This is literally all the doing of the Sons of the Confederacy. Who is the "they" you are blaming -- just kidding, it's quite obvious that you're weirdly blaming Black folks for things that some rather obnoxious white people are actually doing.
Not quite exactly almost. The white trash removing the body are doing so under protest after reaching a compromise with the city over demands for it all to be er . . . taken away by somebody else. At any rate, it wasn't going to be allowed to lay there any longer. Re-interring war dead is nothing at all unusual and I don't see it as objectionable in any way. This is a case where the offended 'minority' is larger than the 'we-love-Nathan-minority'.
The exhumation follows years of protests at the site, decades of demands from the city’s Black residents to remove the statue and the remains, and numerous court fights over what should happen to the burial site.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

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Either way I have no idea why Bill got his panties in a bunch.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Bicycle Bill »

More of the same ....

Once named after Confederate soldier,
Virginia middle school renamed after NASA's Katherine Johnson

(https://www.yahoo.com/gma/once-named-confederate-soldier-virginia-150900706.html)

And just who was this horrid person?  One Sidney Lanier.
Go ahead, Google him .... I'll wait.

You're back?  Lots of entries about his being a poet, author, and musician.  He also passed the Georgia Bar and practiced as a lawyer for several years.  Member of the Georgia Writers' Hall of Fame.  Became a faculty member at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, specializing in the works of English novelists, the Elizabethan sonneteers, Chaucer, Shakespeare, and the Old English poets.  Even featured on a US commemorative stamp (Scott #1446) – as a noted American poet — back in 1972.

Yes, he was a Confederate soldier — actually, served on board a British blockade runner — as a young man, and was captured when he refused to masquerade as a British officer.  He was imprisoned by the US forces and developed tuberculosis, the disease which would eventually claim his life, while in confinement.

But the 'Wokeness Warriors" must have their moment, so forget about his poetic, musical, and other accomplishments.  Instead, it's "out with the filthy pro-slavery bastard, and in with a black (1) female (2) who was working in what had been up-to-then a male-dominated field (3)".  That lets them tick off THREE boxes on their Official Wokefullness Scorecards.

I just hope I've shuffled off this mortal coil before the day comes when they start renaming schools and such after other black 'pioneers' like Tupac Shakur, Michael Jackson, or Cardi B.
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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Gob »

Woke wankery gets even more bizarre.
The president of Magdalen College, Oxford, has strongly defended her graduate students’ right to remove a photograph of the Queen from their common room after the education secretary, Gavin Williamson, called the move “absurd”.

Members of the college’s middle common room (MCR), which is restricted to students taking postgraduate degrees, voted to take down the print, with minutes of the meeting noting that “for some students depictions of the monarch and the British monarchy represent recent colonial history”.

Williamson tweeted: “Oxford university students removing a picture of the Queen is simply absurd. She is the head of state and a symbol of what is best about the UK. During her long reign she has worked tirelessly to promote British values of tolerance, inclusivity and respect around the world.”


But Dinah Rose, the president of Magdalen College, swiftly responded: “Here are some facts about Magdalen College and HM the Queen. The Middle Common Room is an organisation of graduate students. They don’t represent the College. A few years ago, in about 2013, they bought a print of a photo of the Queen to decorate their common room.

“They recently voted to take it down. Both of these decisions are their own to take, not the College’s. Magdalen strongly supports free speech and political debate, and the MCR’S right to autonomy. Maybe they’ll vote to put it up again, maybe they won’t. Meanwhile, the photo will be safely stored.”

Rose added: “Being a student is about more than studying. It’s about exploring and debating ideas. It’s sometimes about provoking the older generation. Looks like that isn’t so hard to do these days.”

Williamson’s intervention comes as the government has put pressure on universities to defend access to campuses for controversial speakers. Last month it proposed new freedom of speech legislation that would bring student unions under the surveillance of the higher education regulator, the Office for Students, and appoint a “free speech champion” to its board.

The bill would allow academics, students or visiting speakers to seek compensation through the courts if they suffered loss from a university’s policies.

Matthew Katzman, Magdalen’s MCR president, told the Daily Telegraph: “It has been taken down. It was decided to leave the common room neutral. That was what this was about. The college will have plenty of depictions of various things, but the common room is meant to be a space for all to feel welcome.”

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... o-of-queen
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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

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Bill--I don't get your point; school names are changed routinely for any number of reasons including changing climates and demographics, but removing the name of an obscure (or at least little known--I'd bet few have known who he was) nineteenth century poet doesn't surprise me in the least. As I have said many times, I do not like character assassination (and think many former confederate military members are tarred with this brush--people are a lot more complex than a simple single point "test"), no one has the right to have his or her name used as the name of an educational institution (or anything else for that matter other than something (s)he owns). You mention he was a poet, but how many schools named after poets can you even name? I am sure there may have been Joyce Kilmer schools in the early 20th century, but they went by the wayside and were changed. Indeed, I recall reading that the NJ Turnpike was propsing to change the name of the Joyce Kilmer rest stop (along with other stops, named after poet Walt Whitman, sports figure Vince Lombardi, and a number of others). So what? I see no dishonor in having one's name removed from a school (or a park, etc.).

You have a strong feeling about defending his reputation (if you have ever head about him before)? By all means, try and set the record straight. I applaud such an effort if it is accurate and honest. But he (really his descendants) has (have) no right to have his name associated with the school forever, or even any period of time.

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Sue U »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:42 pm
I am sure there may have been Joyce Kilmer schools in the early 20th century, but they went by the wayside and were changed.
Ahem ...

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Big RR wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:42 pm
Indeed, I recall reading that the NJ Turnpike was propsing to change the name of the Joyce Kilmer rest stop (along with other stops, named after poet Walt Whitman, sports figure Vince Lombardi, and a number of others).
That's fine, as long as the name of the Molly Pitcher Service Plaza is preserved.

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And BTW, the Camden (NJ) school district will be renaming Woodrow Wilson High School something more appropriate. And why shouldn't a community name or rename its facilities and institutions whatever it feels is appropriate for its citizens and its time?
GAH!

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

NJ closed down the Howard Stern rest stop in 2007 after 12 years.

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Long Run »

Sue U wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:33 pm

And BTW, the Camden (NJ) school district [url=https://www.inquirer.com/news/nj-camden ... 00619.html]will be renaming Woodrow Wilson High School
Yeah, Wilson's historic naming is history here in Portland, too. Seems odd that in a deep blue locale to demote one of the two most iconic liberal/progressives of the last 110 years, but that's how the naming game goes.

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Big RR »

Sue--I stand corrected; Joyce Kilmer was the only poet that came immediately to mind (probably because of Camp Kilmer near Rutgers (now part of the Livingston campus) and because I recall reciting that Tree poem many times in lower grades), but I am surprised to see there is still a school named after him. But again, I agree that communities should have the right to rename facilities. Again, I do object to character assassination of the person's name being removed, but if the community wants to change it, so be it. Hell, it's not Cape Kennedy anymore (OK, there is still a kennedy Space Center, but the name of the cape was changed back to Canaveral.

Maybe NYC has the right idea about school naming (atleast in the grammar school grades; I recall attending PS (public school) 102; no worry about the name.

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Re: 'Wokeness' has officially "Crossed the Line"

Post by Sue U »

Long Run wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:45 pm
Yeah, Wilson's historic naming is history here in Portland, too. Seems odd that in a deep blue locale to demote one of the two most iconic liberal/progressives of the last 110 years, but that's how the naming game goes.
Wilson embraced a reformist political and economic agenda, but he was an inveterate racist who actively worked to keep Black students out of Princeton (while other Ivy League schools were admitting them), courted the KKK, set back the gains of Southern Reconstruction and promoted segregation and a pro-Confederacy narrative. It is at best ironic that his name graces a public school in a majority Black city.
GAH!

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