About race and racism

[liberty]

Sue says that talking about white guilt is just a way to avoid talking about race and racism; in other words, it's a distraction. Well, then let's put aside the damage done to the self-esteem of white children and talk about race and racism. There are government programs that could help black people get ahead in the world and build up wealth if they want to do it. I'm not saying that's not what they want to do all I'm saying is it doesn't appear to be the case with too many individuals.

from another post:

Now let's talk about racism and redlining, to be specific. I don't think bankers are racist; I believe they are capitalist. They're not interested in skin color; it is the color of money that excites them. Why should they care where their profits come from as long as it is a significant profit. If a bank loses money loaning in a specific neighborhood, should they continue to lend money in that neighborhood?

I have a friend who was in real estate. He was an idealist kind of a guy who wanted to make the world a better place. He saw that our local public housing facilities are hundred percent black. He tried to put people in their own houses. He said if a person is buying a home, they're building equity in something with value, but if you're renting a house, you have nothing; you're creating equity for another person.

He specifically targeted the black community with something called rural development loans. Individuals can start paying for their own house with little more than rent money. The loan can be arranged in such a way that all expenses are paid out of the loan. He finally had to give up on the idea up. There's only one major stipulation in rural development loans the borrower must have excellent credit, and he couldn't find anyone with good credit. The best way to help black people to build up wealth would be to take away their credit cards. These individuals had bad credit because they couldn't or wouldn't control their spending. Who is responsible for the individuals' impulse buying? Is it the person , or is it the bank?

[MajGenl.Meade]

The best way to help black people to build up wealth would be to take away their credit cards.

There's the racism - right there.

Any more questions?

[BoSoxGal]

These individuals had bad credit because they couldn't or wouldn't control their spending. Who is responsible for the individuals' impulse buying? Is it the person , or is it the bank?

First of all I call bullshit because federal subsidized loan programs generally don’t require ‘excellent’ credit - most can be approved with fair to good credit precisely because the federal government insures the loan as with the FHA first time home buyer’s program which allows financing of most of the traditional down payment requirement of a private market mortgage.

But beyond that, you are clearly entirely ignorant of the many reasons people of all races, creeds and orientations find themselves in a situation where they have less than excellent credit, very often having nothing whatsoever to do with impulse buying and much more to do with meeting the basic expenses of life.

Abraham Lincoln was a bankrupt you know. So was Thomas Jefferson. Ulysses Grant. Mark Twain. Walt Disney. Henry Ford. Willie Nelson. Dorothy Hamill. And of course Donald Trump, x6 in business bankruptcies.

Proving that everyone from America’s sweetheart to antichrist is capable of getting into financial difficulties that damage credit rating.

Someone who judges others by their credit rating is someone who is deeply misguided indeed.

[liberty]

The best way to help black people to build up wealth would be to take away their credit cards.

There's the racism - right there.

Any more questions?

Meade, you do realize that that is a sentiment created out of frustration. I don't expect the government to take away their credit cards. In a free country, people have the right to be stupid. But how do you expect them to build up any wealth if they can't hold on to any money? If they could lose their credit cards, they would be better off financially.

Many U.S. government programs could help black people improve their economic condition. People living in government housing pay less rent and could save the difference in the money typically spent on rent to buy their own home. Job Corpse provides marketable skills and overwhelmingly serves the black community, but the program's failure rate is very high. Why do you think that is. Don't you think that should be investigated? However, no one can fix someone else's problems; they have to do it themselves, but I don't see anything wrong with helping them if you're willing to try.

[liberty]

These individuals had bad credit because they couldn't or wouldn't control their spending. Who is responsible for the individuals' impulse buying? Is it the person , or is it the bank?

First of all I call bullshit because federal subsidized loan programs generally don’t require ‘excellent’ credit - most can be approved with fair to good credit precisely because the federal government insures the loan as with the FHA first time home buyer’s program which allows financing of most of the traditional down payment requirement of a private market mortgage.

But beyond that, you are clearly entirely ignorant of the many reasons people of all races, creeds and orientations find themselves in a situation where they have less than excellent credit, very often having nothing whatsoever to do with impulse buying and much more to do with meeting the basic expenses of life.

Abraham Lincoln was a bankrupt you know. So was Thomas Jefferson. Ulysses Grant. Mark Twain. Walt Disney. Henry Ford. Willie Nelson. Dorothy Hamill. And of course Donald Trump, x6 in business bankruptcies.

Proving that everyone from America’s sweetheart to antichrist is capable of getting into financial difficulties that damage credit rating.

Someone who judges others by their credit rating is someone who is deeply misguided indeed.

https://www.usdaloans.com/lp/?go=proper ... evelopment

$0 DOWN, 100% FINANCING
USDA Loans are one of the last $0 down mortgages with 100 percent financing, resulting in low out-of-pocket costs.

[BoSoxGal]

The link you posted supports my assertions and refutes yours:

USDA Loans are designed to provide homebuyers with lenient eligibility requirements that help low to moderate income families purchase a home.

Do you know what that means? It means folks with less than excellent credit are eligible.

It sure sounds to me like your conversation with your friend, if it happened at all, was a conversation between two racist good ol’ boys just trading the same false racist stereotypes they’ve always believed in, all real world evidence to the contrary.

[Joe Guy]

......He specifically targeted the black community with something called rural development loans. Individuals can start paying for their own house with little more than rent money. The loan can be arranged in such a way that all expenses are paid out of the loan. He finally had to give up on the idea up. There's only one major stipulation in rural development loans the borrower must have excellent credit, and he couldn't find anyone with good credit. The best way to help black people to build up wealth would be to take away their credit cards. These individuals had bad credit because they couldn't or wouldn't control their spending. Who is responsible for the individuals' impulse buying? Is it the person , or is it the bank?

Taking away people's credit cards isn't going to increase their credit standing (credit score). And many people couldn't live much of a life without credit cards. That's kinda why the credit card was invented.

I'm curious how your friend thought he was going to specifically help black people who live in public housing facilities since they would almost be required to have bad credit in order to live in one of those places.

[BoSoxGal]

I'm curious how your friend thought he was going to specifically help black people who live in public housing facilities since they would almost be required to have bad credit in order to live in one of those places.

Public housing is for low income individuals who are eligible on that basis - but not all low income individuals have bad credit, they just have low income. Some low income people are actually able to manage their finances and don’t splash out on credit card debt, but they happen to be single moms who don’t make great wages and often their kids have dead beat dads who don’t contribute much if anything. Or they’re elderly living on a fixed SS income. Etc.

[Joe Guy]

Public housing is for low income individuals who are eligible on that basis - but not all low income individuals have bad credit, they just have low income. Some low income people are actually able to manage their finances and don’t splash out on credit card debt, but they happen to be single moms who don’t make great wages and often their kids have dead beat dads who don’t contribute much if anything. Or they’re elderly living on a fixed SS income. Etc.

I said "they would almost be required to have bad credit" which wasn't a very clear statement. I should have written that people living in public housing are unlikely to be in a situation that would allow them to be approved for a home loan. Banks look at your income so a person would need more than a good credit rating to qualify for a home loan.

[liberty]

......He specifically targeted the black community with something called rural development loans. Individuals can start paying for their own house with little more than rent money. The loan can be arranged in such a way that all expenses are paid out of the loan. He finally had to give up on the idea up. There's only one major stipulation in rural development loans the borrower must have excellent credit, and he couldn't find anyone with good credit. The best way to help black people to build up wealth would be to take away their credit cards. These individuals had bad credit because they couldn't or wouldn't control their spending. Who is responsible for the individuals' impulse buying? Is it the person , or is it the bank?

Taking away people's credit cards isn't going to increase their credit standing (credit score). And many people couldn't live much of a life without credit cards. That's kinda why the credit card was invented.

I'm curious how your friend thought he was going to specifically help black people who live in public housing facilities since they would almost be required to have bad credit in order to live in one of those places.

I don't think bad credit is a requirement for public housing; I didn't see it in this link: HUD's Public Housing Program | HUD.gov / U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)

[MajGenl.Meade]

I don't expect the government to take away THEIR credit cards . . . But how do you expect THEM to build up any wealth if THEY can't hold on to any money? If THEY could lose THEIR credit cards, THEY would be better off financially.

Many U.S. government programs could help BLACK people improve THEIR economic condition . . .

Racist dog whistles - does he really not get it? Or is he just whistling?

Job Corpse provides marketable skills and overwhelmingly serves the black community

I suppose Job Corpse is one of those who would have complained a lot about that guy in the UK who loved the dead.

[Joe Guy]

Job Corpse might sound good to some people but the truth is they always place people in dead end jobs.

[dales]

[liberty]

Job Corpse might sound good to some people but the truth is they always place people in dead end jobs.

Some of these jobs are well-paid skills, and some are not. I took drafting and didn't learn until later that drafting was not paid well in my town. I should have taken mechanical repair of some type.

Would you please point out the dead-end jobs?



List of Job Corps Trades (chron.com)
•
• Bricklayer
• Brick Masonry
• Building Construction Technology
• Carpentry
• Cement Masonry
• Construction Craft Laborer
• Electrical Facilities Maintenance
• Floor Covering
• Glazing
• Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning
• Painting Plastering
• Plumbing
• Tile Setting

Retail, Hospitality, Business/Finance
Have a knack for numbers? You may like financial services, accounting or other running an office. Or maybe you'd like to turn your cooking know-how into a catering career.
• Accounting services
• Advanced culinary arts
• Culinary Arts
• Hotel and lodging
• Insurance/financial services, banking or customer service
• Office administration
• Retail sales

Health Care
Like helping people and taking care of them when they're sick? There are many careers in health care that don't require years in school.
• Certified Nurse Assistant
• Clinical Medical Assistant
• Dental Assistant
• Emergency Medical Technician
• Health Care Unit Coordinator
• Insurance Claims Processor
• Licensed Practical/Vocational Nurse
• Medical Administrative Assistant
• Patient Care Technician
• Pharmacy Technician
• Rehabilitation Technician

Computers and Technology
Do the workings of a computer just make sense to you? Or maybe you recognize that computer are a big part of life today and you want to know all about them.
• Computer Networking/Cisco
• Computer Technician, A+ or network
• IT Essential
• Network Cable Installation - Copper or Fiber
• Optics based
• Routing, Switching, Network

Transportation
Whether you want to drive a big rig or pave the roads they drive on, many jobs in transportation require less than a year of training.
• Asphalt Paving – Pre-Apprentice (IUOE)
• Heavy Equipment Operations (IUOE)
• Heavy Truck Driving – Tractor-Trailer and Straight
• Inland River Systems
• Material Handling and Distribution Operations
• Roustabout Operator
• Seamanship – Able Seaman
• Seamanship Deckhand-Ordinary Seaman and Qualified Member of the Engineers

Resources and Energy
Conserving lands and forests, keeping them beautiful or safe from hazards is an art and a science. Keeping the water supply safe and clean is an absolute necessity.
• Forestry Conservation and Firefighting
• Landscaping – Ornamental and Exterior
• Landscaping – Trainee and Pre-Apprentice (HBI)
• Petroleum Technician
• Sewer and Wastewater Worker
• Urban Forestry
• Wastewater Collection Operator
• Wastewater Treatment Operator
• Water Distribution Operator
• Water Treatment Operator

Homeland Security
The safety and security of citizens, whether outdoors in nature, in public buildings or in private homes, is of vital importance, and you could be a part of this field.
• Corrections Officer
• Homeland Security
• Retail, Physical, and Public Security
• Security and Protective Services

[MajGenl.Meade]

Job Corpse might sound good to some people but the truth is they always place people in dead end jobs.

Some of these jobs are well-paid skills, and some are not. I took drafting and didn't learn until later that drafting was not paid well in my town. I should have taken mechanical repair of some type.

Would you please point out the dead-end jobs?

Are you really so dense? CORPSE you silly person is a dead body . . . etc etc etc

[Joe Guy]

Would you please point out the dead-end jobs?

Typical Job Corpse Placement

[MajGenl.Meade]

Would you please point out the dead-end jobs?

Typical Job Corpse Placement

Yeah, he missed out "toe truck driver"

[liberty]

Job Corpse might sound good to some people but the truth is they always place people in dead end jobs.

Some of these jobs are well-paid skills, and some are not. I took drafting and didn't learn until later that drafting was not paid well in my town. I should have taken mechanical repair of some type.

Would you please point out the dead-end jobs?

Are you really so dense? CORPSE you silly person is a dead body . . . etc etc etc

I am glad you enjoyed it; there will be more, and there is nothing I can do about it; enjoy. It is going to happen if I post enough. Isn’t white privilege a great thing? Well, I am only three-quarters white; maybe that is the problem. I am not white enough. But you don’t hear me whining about it, and I won’t give up until the day I die.

[Bicycle Bill]

Some of these jobs are well-paid skills, and some are not. I took drafting and didn't learn until later that drafting was not paid well in my town. I should have taken mechanical repair of some type.

Would you please point out the dead-end jobs?

Are you really so dense? CORPSE you silly person is a dead body . . . etc etc etc

I am glad you enjoyed it; there will be more, and there is nothing I can do about it; enjoy. It is going to happen if I post enough. Isn’t white privilege a great thing? Well, I am only three-quarters white; maybe that is the problem. I am not white enough. But you don’t hear me whining about it, and I won’t give up until the day I die.

If you were smart enough to take up drafting and succeed at it, you should also have gotten enough education to know the difference between 'corps' and 'corpse'.  And even if you do and it was just an errant keystroke (the 'e' is, after all, just above and to the right of the 's', so it could have happened that way), a couple of moments to preview and proof-read your post before hitting the 'submit' button will save you from looking like you were home-schooled by people who hadn't made it past third grade themselves.

-"BB"-

[liberty]

Are you really so dense? CORPSE you silly person is a dead body . . . etc etc etc

I am glad you enjoyed it; there will be more, and there is nothing I can do about it; enjoy. It is going to happen if I post enough. Isn’t white privilege a great thing? Well, I am only three-quarters white; maybe that is the problem. I am not white enough. But you don’t hear me whining about it, and I won’t give up until the day I die.

If you were smart enough to take up drafting and succeed at it, you should also have gotten enough education to know the difference between 'corps' and 'corpse'.  And even if you do and it was just an errant keystroke (the 'e' is, after all, just above and to the right of the 's', so it could have happened that way), a couple of moments to preview and proof-read your post before hitting the 'submit' button will save you from looking like you were home-schooled by people who hadn't made it past third grade themselves.

-"BB"-

You don’t get it, Bill; the problem is not knowing the problem is perceiving. I know the difference between a day of the week and being weak, but that doesn’t stop me from transposing such words.

And I didn’t finish the drafting course. I got a draft notice went back home and reported for the draft. I failed the draft due to an automobile injury from a year earlier. I couldn’t bring myself to go back into the Job Corps. While I was in Job Corps, I would not allow black racists to force me out. But once I had an acceptable reason for not being in Job Corps, it was hard to go back into an environment where I was a target for being white.

I was at Gary Job Corps center in 1968, and after-hours retribution teams made up of 1 little black guy and two big ones would wander the base searching for white boys to force into a fight. I was almost a victim. As it happened, a black friend saved my hide. Oh, and by the way, the reason for the two black guys was that a white boy winning a fight was not permitted. If a white boy fought back, he got the hell beat out of him. Once I was out of the environment, it was hard to go back. But I did learn quite a bit of drafting while I was there.