Again I ask - how does how David refers to himself, or asks you to refer to him, make one bit of difference in *your* life or to *your* identity?
No one here has a problem referring to me as Guin. How is that any different, because it's certainly not my name (and no, that is not an invitation to use my real name here, either).
I don't understand the uproar; nor has anyone explained it in any way that makes sense.
PS:
She/Her/Hers
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Again I ask - how does how David refers to himself, or asks you to refer to him, make one bit of difference in *your* life or to *your* identity?
Because as the old adage says, habits – good or bad – are hard to break — and at almost 67 years old I find it impossible to wrap my head around the idea that physical facts don't matter any more. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, and there ain't no 'sliding scale' or 'spectrum' along which one can decide to position oneself. As I posted once before on this board, just because someone decides to call a pine tree an oak tree instead doesn't mean that it *IS* an oak tree.
As for calling you "Guin" on this forum, I have no other information on which to base that request. To the best of my knowledge and memory, I have never met you personally or been advised of your real name, so I have no way of knowing definitely if you are male or female — or an exceptionally good AI chat-bot program . And since I perceive "Guin" to be short for "Guinevere", a name traditionally given to females, I've tended to default to the feminine when using pronouns in reference to you (thank you for confirming my suspicions, btw). -"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
A man is a man, a woman is a woman, and there ain't no 'sliding scale' or 'spectrum'
You do realize that isn't even remotely true, even genetically and anatomically, right? There are XX and XY individuals showing both male and female sex characteristics. Some are XXY, showing either male sex characteristics, or female sex characteristics, or both. There are XXXYs. And XYYs. And XXYYs. Looks like plenty of 'spectrum' happening at the most fundamental, biochemical and physical levels. Obviously it follows that the same would be true intellectually and emotionally.
I get that the 1650s keep calling to get you back, but it's time to hang up on them and join the rest of world in the present.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
A man is a man, a woman is a woman, and there ain't no 'sliding scale' or 'spectrum'
You do realize that isn't even remotely true, even genetically and anatomically, right? There are XX and XY individuals showing both male and female sex characteristics. Some are XXY, showing either male sex characteristics, or female sex characteristics, or both. There are XXXYs. And XYYs. And XXYYs. Looks like plenty of 'spectrum' happening at the most fundamental, biochemical and physical levels. Obviously it follows that the same would be true intellectually and emotionally.
I get that the 1650s keep calling to get you back, but it's time to hang up on them and join the rest of world in the present.
I worked with a nurse who is just one X. Turner syndrome with interesting issues attached.
A man is a man, a woman is a woman, and there ain't no 'sliding scale' or 'spectrum'
You do realize that isn't even remotely true, even genetically and anatomically, right? There are XX and XY individuals showing both male and female sex characteristics. Some are XXY, showing either male sex characteristics, or female sex characteristics, or both. There are XXXYs. And XYYs. And XXYYs. Looks like plenty of 'spectrum' happening at the most fundamental, biochemical and physical levels. Obviously it follows that the same would be true intellectually and emotionally.
I get that the 1650s keep calling to get you back, but it's time to hang up on them and join the rest of world in the present.
I worked with a nurse who is just one X. Turner syndrome with interesting issues attached.
The fact of the matter is that in any of these circumstances they are an anomaly — the exception rather than the norm, sort of like that so-called 'cotton candy' lobster that was caught recently, or why there is such a ruckus when a white buffalo calf is born. Giving it a name like "Turner Syndrome" kind of proves my point that it is something out of the ordinary, enough so that it was assigned a special term or designation.
And for the record:
Turner Syndrome:
A chromosomal disorder in which a female is born with only one X chromosome.
Turner syndrome results from a missing or incomplete sex chromosome.
Symptoms include short stature, delayed puberty, infertility, heart defects, and certain learning disabilities.
Treatment involves hormone therapy. Fertility treatment may be necessary for women who want to become pregnant.
It also sounds like the disorder is not able to be self-propagating, due to the likelihood of infertility, without human intervention such as the hormone therapy and fertility treatments. So if you want to look at it from a purely biological viewpoint, by providing these hormone and fertility treatments we humans are subverting natural selection and meddling with our own genome by permitting persons who would have been unable to reproduce otherwise to pass the potential for this abnormality/defect along to future generations. -"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
Again I ask - how does how David refers to himself, or asks you to refer to him, make one bit of difference in *your* life or to *your* identity?
It doesn't. But there's no harm in discussing this phenomena of a company thinking David needs a badge to tell us what he should be referred to. Did anyone seeing that photo think he may want to be called "her"?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
But there's no harm in discussing this phenomena of a company thinking David needs a badge to tell us what he should be referred to. Did anyone seeing that photo think he may want to be called "her"?
No. But if everyone who is willing does it, those whose pronouns might not be as obvious do not need to feel self-conscious about disclosing theirs.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
Again I ask - how does how David refers to himself, or asks you to refer to him, make one bit of difference in *your* life or to *your* identity?
It doesn't. But there's no harm in discussing this phenomena of a company thinking David needs a badge to tell us what he should be referred to. Did anyone seeing that photo think he may want to be called "her"?
That’s the point, you should not assume. This David may be happy as he/him, but what about the David who prefers they or the David who prefers she?
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Life is built on assumptions. If we didn’t make assumptions life would grind to a halt. Back when I was young and had long hair I was often called “miss” (at least from behind). I never got upset about it unless they were obviously doing it on purpose. (Only happened a few times)
A lot of the problems in this world can be solved if everything else is equal instead of taking offense just assuming it was an honest mistake.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
I see. People who don't want to be mistaken for being what they aren't would prefer that everybody wear a label. Maybe the solution should be that everyone be required to get a bar code tattooed on their forehead that indicates all of their pronouns and alterations. Then people who want that information could scan a person with a cell phone app when they are introduced.
And then everybody will be happy which is how life should be.
I want to be a lighthouse keeper on an island in the North Atlantic. Me, my border collie mix and crates of books. Drop provisions by helicopter, don’t bother stopping in for tea.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
The only objectively fair, simple, workable solution is to merge all third-person pronouns into one form (probably "they"), much the way that the singular/plural/formal/informal ("ye"/"you"/"thou"/"thee") second-person pronouns all became "you".
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God@The Tweet of God
. And since I perceive "Guin" to be short for "Guinevere", a name traditionally given to females, I've tended to default to the feminine when using pronouns in reference to you (thank you for confirming my suspicions, btw).
