If not there, where? If not then, when?

[Gob]

Oh I'm sorry - for "extreme bias" read "atheism" and it's not really interesting at all. Just invective

Even if C S Lewis said it? Funny...

Narcissistic personality disorder

Symptoms

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:

•React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation

•Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals

•Have excessive feelings of self-importance

•Exaggerate achievements and talents

•Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love

•Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment

•Need constant attention and admiration

•Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy

•Have obsessive self-interest

•Pursue mainly selfish goals

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."

"I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty."

"I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you won't have to walk in darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life."

"I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die."

[MajGenl.Meade]

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may: Jesus Score

•React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation - zero

•Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals - zero

•Have excessive feelings of self-importance - zero

•Exaggerate achievements and talents - zero

•Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love - aboslute zero

•Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment - zero (crucifixion not all that favourable)

•Need constant attention and admiration - zero

•Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy - zero

•Have obsessive self-interest - zero

•Pursue mainly selfish goals - very zero

Well unless you are talking about me the score is.... let me add that up... oh! Zero!

Tsk tsk whodathunkit?
Meade

[Gob]

LOL!! hmmmm....

I think you are being a little over generous there Meade...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Yer right I was. Duckworth-Lewis: minus 5

[Gob]

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may: Jesus Score

•React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation -
Mark 8:18 has Jesus complaining because the disciples still did not understand his miracles. (The smashing up the temple bit too.)

•Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals -
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

•Have excessive feelings of self-importance -
see above

•Exaggerate achievements and talents -
"I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die."

•Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love -
“So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these?

•Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment -
"If you love me, you will obey my commands." (John 14:15)

•Need constant attention and admiration
-"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."


•Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy -
I'll give you this one.

•Have obsessive self-interest -
What? Everything about him is "Me! Me! Me!"

•Pursue mainly selfish goals -
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Well unless you are talking about me the score is.... let me add that up... classic narcissit

Tsk tsk whodathunkit?
Gob

[MajGenl.Meade]

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may: Jesus Score

•React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation -
Mark 8:18 has Jesus complaining because the disciples still did not understand his miracles. (The smashing up the temple bit too.)

•Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals -
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

•Have excessive feelings of self-importance -
see above

•Exaggerate achievements and talents -
"I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die."

•Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love -
“So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these?

•Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment -
"If you love me, you will obey my commands." (John 14:15)

•Need constant attention and admiration
-"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."


•Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy -
I'll give you this one.

•Have obsessive self-interest -
What? Everything about him is "Me! Me! Me!"

•Pursue mainly selfish goals -
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Well unless you are talking about me the score is.... let me add that up... classic narcissit

Tsk tsk whodathunkit?
Gob

Yah gots a Bible?!? There is hope! Look a guy complains once about the workforce and now the do-gooder tree hugging social leaches are slapping some kinda court order on da guy? And they accuse him of using others to achieve his goals - like peacefully pissing them off so they stick nails tru his hands and feet is some kinda reward? I ask you. All ya gotta do is axe just one buddy if he loves ya more than he loves ya beers and the next thing you know they're accusing you of being a narcissit which I tink is some kinda fag or summat. Then before he dies horribly, he asks if folks would just follow his kind example and they tink it's favourable treatment. Yeah well I hope when I'm strung up and da guys say "Don't worry, we'll take care of de cat" I'll feel a whole lot better. And the constant attention (whack) and admiration (whack) goes right along with the (whack) crown of thorns (press) to build a guy up - almost like when (whack) will you shut that noise up there I'm talking fer someone's sake. Sheesh. Ok, yeah so it's selfish goals they accuse ya of - that one about saving as many as possible - shoulda just let 'em all drown is what it is. Yeah and the cat too.

[Sean]

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may: Jesus Score

•React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation - zero

•Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals - zero

•Have excessive feelings of self-importance - zero

•Exaggerate achievements and talents - zero

•Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love - aboslute zero

•Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment - zero (crucifixion not all that favourable)

•Need constant attention and admiration - zero

•Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy - zero

•Have obsessive self-interest - zero

•Pursue mainly selfish goals - very zero

Well unless you are talking about me the score is.... let me add that up... oh! Zero!

Tsk tsk whodathunkit?
Meade

Not fair Meade. You're pre-supposing Jesus' divinity to gain that score. The test would only come into play if he were an ordinary mortal. I'd like to see you do it again but this time imagine that Jesus was not the son of God.

[Gob]

Love your humour Meade.

The trouble is with personality disordered people, they normally piss so many people off, due to their inability to see the wrong in what they do, that they come to a sticky end...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Not fair Meade. You're pre-supposing Jesus' divinity to gain that score. The test would only come into play if he were an ordinary mortal. I'd like to see you do it again but this time imagine that Jesus was not the son of God.

Well Gob is presupposing that Jesus isn't - I suppose I can presuppose on purpose?

OK I'll try...... OK almost there.....

Ah crap! Couldn't do it.

It's like imagining that the Cleveland Indians will win the Superbowl. Granted they stand a better chance than the Browns. Or that Ricky Ponting will discover modesty but that's life

Meade

PS Gob: Gee tanks but da wrong ones don't get resurrected to glory

[thestoat]

Gob, based on your list (which Meade gave Jesus a score of zero for), what would be your score?

[Sean]

Not fair Meade. You're pre-supposing Jesus' divinity to gain that score. The test would only come into play if he were an ordinary mortal. I'd like to see you do it again but this time imagine that Jesus was not the son of God.

Well Gob is presupposing that Jesus isn't - I suppose I can presuppose on purpose?

OK I'll try...... OK almost there.....

Ah crap! Couldn't do it.

It's like imagining that the Cleveland Indians will win the Superbowl. Granted they stand a better chance than the Browns. Or that Ricky Ponting will discover modesty but that's life

Meade

PS Gob: Gee tanks but da wrong ones don't get resurrected to glory

Nope, sorry I'm not buying it. The was Strop's post on the subject:

The interesting thing is, if you look at Jesus words with atheist eyes, and an understanding of psychology/psychiatry, he comes across as the perfect charismatic narcissistic personality disorder, with a little psychosis round the fringes.

It stemmed from the quote you posted from C.S. Lewis:

A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.

So when Lewis says it it's quoteworthy but when Strop says it it's invective.

Oh and for "extreme bias" you could read Christianity just as easily as Atheism depending on the content of a given sentence...

...imagine that Jesus was not the son of God.

OK I'll try...... OK almost there.....

Ah crap! Couldn't do it.

[thestoat]

No, I mean he moves in mysterious ways..

He twists and turns like a twisty turney thing

[MajGenl.Meade]

Sean after midnight I turn into a f..kwit so maybe the Good Sister had a point. dammit that wasn't supposed to be "invective" but "inventive" - made up. I did not notice it even when Gob quoted it back to me (I usually don't re-read my own quote-backs).

I'm rather ashamed to have thought he was totally befogged to write "Even if C S Lewis said it?" I thought he was asking if I'd believe his diagnosis if Lewis said it. Thanks for the catch. I won't bother to correct it. But I wonder if it was Freudian?

Yes of course you're right extreme bias applies to any presupposition. Which I thought would have been clear when I said that both Gob and I were presupposing (different things of course). I am under no illusion about my own bias on such matters.

Twisting gently in the breeze
Meade

PS yeah I know it's always "after midnight"

[loCAtek]

Narcissistic? Doesn't that mean self-centered? Where/how does he serve himself here?;

The teachings of Christ Jesus were simple but unique and innovative at the time of his life on earth. He began teaching about 30 AD during the ruthless Roman occupation of Palestine. At the time there were four major groups in the Jewish religion, the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and the Zealots, all of whom presented a different viewpoint to the Jewish people. The Pharisees demanded strict observance of the Mosaic law expressed in the Torah, but also accepted the oral tradition of Jewish customs and rituals. The Sadducees were mainly from the priestly families and strictly accepted the Law of Moses but rejected oral tradition. The Pharisees, unlike the Sadducees, believed in the resurrection of the dead. The monastic Essenes awaited a Messiah that would establish a Kingdom on earth and free the Israelites from oppression. The Zealots were a militant Jewish group who wanted freedom for their homeland, and were centered in Galilee; one of the Twelve Apostles was Simon the Zealot.

The Ten Commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai in the Old Testament Book of Exodus, relates a series of "Thou shalt nots," evils one must avoid in daily life on earth.

In contrast, the message of Jesus was one of humility, charity, and brotherly love. He taught transformation of the inner person. Jesus presents the Beatitudes in a positive sense, virtues in life which will ultimately lead to reward. Love becomes the motivation for the Christian. All of the Beatitudes have an eschatological meaning, that is, they promise us salvation - not in this world, but in the next. The Beatitudes initiate one of the main themes of Matthew's Gospel, that the Kingdom so long awaited in the Old Testament is not of this world, but of the next, the Kingdom of Heaven.

While the Beatitudes of Jesus provide a way of life that promises salvation, they also provide peace in the midst of our trials and tribulations on this earth.



THE EIGHT BEATITUDES OF JESUS


"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10

I see many blessings to others, what does the Christ get outta alla this? ...other than the burden of forgiving everyone's sins?

[thestoat]

I see many blessings to others, what does the Christ get outta alla this?

He gets lots of big ups from all the people that have to worship him

[dgs49]

I recently heard from someone who should know that Christian theologians generally believe that the so-called "Sermon on the Mount" was a capsule summary of several sermons delivered over a period of months or even years.

I was shocked. But reading over them it makes sense.

[dales]

I see many blessings to others, what does the Christ get outta alla this?

He gets lots of big ups from all the people that have love to worship him

Fixed it for ya!

[thestoat]

Fair point Dales

[loCAtek]

I see many blessings to others, what does the Christ get outta alla this?

He gets lots of big ups from all the people that have to worship him

Such as ...?


I mean he's dead, right? if as an atheist; you don't believe he exists anymore- what is he getting exactly?


Unless, you believe he does exist in the afterlife ...which means you're not an atheist?

[Sean]

...or we could be talking in hypotheticals...