I can do it with iron sights. (Indeed, I used to shoot paint cans at 150 yards.)
Jarl - you know far more about weapons than I do - in fact I haven't shot a rifle since I was 12 - we had a rifle range at school and I was in the CCF (British ROTC equivalent) - and to get my marksman badge I had to shoot some minimal score with a bolt action Lee Enfield .303 at 25 yards. Targets were about tennis ball size, and you got a couple of sighting shots so you could adjust the iron sights.
I well remember the humiliation when Major Allen (also maths teacher) who was looking through the scope at the targets, told me I was wasting ammunition. I made up for it by beating the rest of the school at calculus, so maybe Major Allen knew what he was doing.
So hitting a paint can (head size; so no doubt that's why it's chosen) at 150 yards is quite impressive to me. I still think that this is a pretty good shot given he is scrambling on a roof, has no time and has no (?) support.
BSG--My guess it is one of two reason--either they are concerned that the free wheeling style of Morning Joe might lead to some inapprorpiate comments which could be hard to deal with (I have a couple of friends who are insisting that the attempt was engineered by republicans to get Trump heroic coverage right before the convention--kind of like what happened with Reagan--and I would not be surprised is some of the Morning Joe Denizens might mention that sort of thing--it's what they do) or they don't want their major talent to be tarnished by some of the things they are broadcasting--I usually don't watch MSNBC, so I don't know what is being broadcast. FWIW, I think we can make all the conspiracy claims and comments we want, but I hold journalists to a higher standard (it's why I avoid Fox as well).
I can do it with iron sights. (Indeed, I used to shoot paint cans at 150 yards.)
Jarl - you know far more about weapons than I do - in fact I haven't shot a rifle since I was 12 - we had a rifle range at school and I was in the CCF (British ROTC equivalent) - and to get my marksman badge I had to shoot some minimal score with a bolt action Lee Enfield .303 at 25 yards. Targets were about tennis ball size, and you got a couple of sighting shots so you could adjust the iron sights.
I well remember the humiliation when Major Allen (also maths teacher) who was looking through the scope at the targets, told me I was wasting ammunition. I made up for it by beating the rest of the school at calculus, so maybe Major Allen knew what he was doing.
So hitting a paint can (head size; so no doubt that's why it's chosen) at 150 yards is quite impressive to me. I still think that this is a pretty good shot given he is scrambling on a roof, has no time and has no (?) support.
The reason we used paint cans was no more and no less than we HAD them, and they make durable targets (filled with concrete) that can be used for many years. 150 yards was, at the time, all the space we had.
When I was 14 years old in Army JROTC, I earned the Army’s highest marksmanship rating of expert for my exploits with a rifle, on a range, in controlled conditions.
I know that being an expert marksman is about much more than the ability to aim; it requires a calmness of mind and ability to synchronize one’s breathing and the stillness of one’s body with taking the shot, so that those things are not in opposition to one another. On an outdoor range it also requires taking into account the environmental conditions and how they will affect the trajectory of the shot.
Considering the conditions this shooter was facing - apparently just before shooting he’d come face to face with a law enforcement officer who attempted to engage him over the edge of the rooftop - it’s pretty impressive that one of his shots was basically a perfect sniper shot, foiled only by Trump moving his head a split second before.
Given that he was once kicked off the high school shooting team for being a dangerously bad shot, it’s pretty clear he must have somehow managed to train himself into expert capacity in the intervening years.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
I wonder if it was a simple as poor vision, and subsequently getting glasses. You can lose lots of vision ability and not realize it. (Speaking from experience.)
I was in the CCF (British ROTC equivalent) - and to get my marksman badge I had to shoot some minimal score with a bolt action Lee Enfield .303 at 25 yards. Targets were about tennis ball size, and you got a couple of sighting shots so you could adjust the iron sights.
I didn't think anyone could fail the CCF red badge of outrage. I must say that in 2007 at a much greater age I had no trouble putting a .303 from a Smellie into a head-size target at 100 yds.
I would not at all care to try it with an AR-15 type weapon from 100 meters. It would be more spray and hope.
The effective range of an AR-15, where an average shooter can hit a vehicle-sized target, is between 400-600 yards, according to a survey of gun review sites. The range will be affected by the skill of the shooter, the caliber of round used and environmental factors.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
I was in the CCF (British ROTC equivalent) - and to get my marksman badge I had to shoot some minimal score with a bolt action Lee Enfield .303 at 25 yards. Targets were about tennis ball size, and you got a couple of sighting shots so you could adjust the iron sights.
I didn't think anyone could fail the CCF red badge of outrage. I must say that in 2007 at a much greater age I had no trouble putting a .303 from a Smellie into a head-size target at 100 yds.
I would not at all care to try it with an AR-15 type weapon from 100 meters. It would be more spray and hope.
The effective range of an AR-15, where an average shooter can hit a vehicle-sized target, is between 400-600 yards, according to a survey of gun review sites. The range will be affected by the skill of the shooter, the caliber of round used and environmental factors.
Just posting to let Jarl know that this morning, as I do most days, I said a little prayer to the universe that Donald Trump would suffer his inevitable MI or massive stroke soon, so we can get about the work of getting this country beyond his era of toxic incivility.
I looked up the numbers for you:
US SECRET SERVICE BOSTON FIELD OFFICE 617-565-5640
FBI BOSTON (857) 386-2000
Hope that helps. (Don't expect a call back. It's not illegal to wish that bloated toxic MFer would croak soon. )
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
I was in the CCF (British ROTC equivalent) - and to get my marksman badge I had to shoot some minimal score with a bolt action Lee Enfield .303 at 25 yards. Targets were about tennis ball size, and you got a couple of sighting shots so you could adjust the iron sights.
I didn't think anyone could fail the CCF red badge of outrage. I must say that in 2007 at a much greater age I had no trouble putting a .303 from a Smellie into a head-size target at 100 yds.
I would not at all care to try it with an AR-15 type weapon from 100 meters. It would be more spray and hope.
The effective range of an AR-15, where an average shooter can hit a vehicle-sized target, is between 400-600 yards, according to a survey of gun review sites. The range will be affected by the skill of the shooter, the caliber of round used and environmental factors.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Which part?
My amazement that anyone in CCF could not get the marksmanship badge?
My amazing and awe-inspiring skill at hitting a target at 100yds with an SMLE? (I bet you know what a Smellie is)
That I wouldn't care to try it at 100m with AR15 and would instead hope and spray?
You can't challenge my amazement, my "skill" or my not wanting to try. So it must be
the quote lifted from July 14 report by some geezer named James Powel?
What to know about the AR-15, the style of gun used in Trump assassination attempt
Maybe he's incorrect. But I know that I quoted what he wrote. So you mean he doesn't know what he's talking about????
Thank you for that cogent observation
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Donald’s not too smart. He picked J.D. Vance to be his VP. I bet J.D. was fantastic at licking his loafer soles. He’s also a prevaricating prick. They’ll get along famously - but I suspect J.D. is a backstabber. Watch out, Donald!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
it’s pretty impressive that one of his shots was basically a perfect sniper shot, foiled only by Trump moving his head a split second before.
Had Drumpf NOT turned his head to the right, he'd be dead.
If the kid had shot for center mass, instead of trying for a perfect head shot, Drumph would be dead.
There are a lot of "what ifs" involved.
A friend of Doc's, one of only two B-29 bombers still flying.
it’s pretty impressive that one of his shots was basically a perfect sniper shot, foiled only by Trump moving his head a split second before.
Had Drumpf NOT turned his head to the right, he'd be dead.
If the kid had shot for center mass, instead of trying for a perfect head shot, Drumph would be dead.
There are a lot of "what ifs" involved.
My suspicion is that SS makes Trump wear a vest in open air rallies, but maybe not.
For a potential assassin, I would think there would be some reluctance to bypass the iconic head obliterating shot like we’ve all seen so many times on the Zapruder film, and which the shooter’s generation has grown up seeing abundantly on their FPS video games.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
There is enormous difference between shooting the British Smelly at basic ROTC and shooting an AR15 manufactured perhaps 12 years ago today. I had a smelly surplus bought for $12 in Columbus Nebraska in 1963. Military surplus ammo for the .303 was about $1.50 for a box of 50. Both the gun and ammo was of unknown provenance. There was basic problem of headspace. The front part of the bolt could be unscrewed and traded around until you got a bolt and chamber that could pass a go/no gauge which the gun store had. We reliably hit empty 1 qt auto oil cans off-hand (standing) at 25 yards. I suspect the rifles used by Andy were well worn out and given to the school because of their very used condition.
As to the ability of the military M16 to hit a vehicle size target at 300 yards. I would want to know the conditions of the testing. The Mattel .22 (what the first M16's issued in Viet Nam in 1969 were fondly called) The AR15 has gone through decades of testing and development. Military experience is a different league than the civilian target competition. I was briefly part of the Seventh Army marksmanship unit in Germany in 1960. We used the M1 Grand, developed for WWII and used in Korea. Still issued in the '60s and gradually replaced by the M14. We used a particular rifle (it has always been understood that individual rifles will perform differently, that is why one was expected to memorize the serial number of your rifle and know it as well a your own service number) It takes alot more than just two shots to 'sight in' a rifle. We used cherry picked lots of .30-06 ammo from Lake City Arsenal. The rifles were cherry picked as well and then worked over by highly skill artisans to produce a rifle that would look and measure any part to be identical to the mass produced rifle issued to ordinary infantry. It did not shoot the same at all. To be in the unit one was expected to hit a six inch bullseye paper target with every shot at 300, 600 and 1000 yard. The thousand yard was from the prone position. The two closer shots were from sitting. I could deal with the 3 and 6 distance but the 1000 yards was beyond me and I washed out. I had short legs the gave me a very solid sitting position but I could learn not read the wind. The real experts who competed internationally would keep all their shots in the black and most of them in the x ring, half the size of the black bullseye. Now target completion uses a moving sheet of paper behind the target to count the shots-- several bullets through the same hole in the target is normal.
Both the AR15 rifle and the ammo have been improved by target completion by civilians. What was the gold standard for center-fire rifles in the 60s (a minute of angle shot group--10 shots all inside one inch at 100 yards) is now routine. You can buy an AR15 out of the box at the store, with factory ammo, that with a little tuning will do 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. Agree, ammo that will do it is expensive, not military surplus.
There are alot of what-ifs in this latest investigation. For me the biggest is why that building was outside the Secret Service security circle.
But I m not expecting a medical condition to keep Trump out of office. Kennedy was still considered an important candidate with worms in his brain
There are alot of what-ifs in this latest investigation. For me the biggest is why that building was outside the Secret Service security circle.
According to NPR, the Secret Service had charge inside the venue perimeter. The building was outside and under the purview of local law enforcement. There were four security sharpshooters in the vicinity - not sure exactly where - 2 secret service in the venue and 2 locals somewhere, perhaps there too.
The shooter was not positioned on the building ready to kill. He scrambled up minutes before Trump started blethering, was observed doing so and "police were told but didn't react" according to witnesses. He then elbowed himself into position (also on the video) and started shooting. Video of him climbing up shows that at least one police person got up there soon after - presumably the guy who (according to a report I saw) said he fired his pistol. I'd be interested in knowing which sharpshooter (positioned where) actually made the shot that took him out.
It appears (altho Jarl will no doubt say I don't know what I'm talking about - altho' I'm not currently talking) . . . it appears he took hasty shots without overmuch preparation. Damn shame about the attendee who was killed and the two seriously injured. Also damn shame that Trump was hit at all - he's going to milk his (instinctively clever) Iwo Jima moment until the voting's done.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
(Don't expect a call back. It's not illegal to wish that bloated toxic MFer would croak soon. 
)
