France bans the burka

[Scooter]

It is their country so if is up to French people to regulator their society as they see fit.

Sure. Just like it was up to societies to require Jews to wear pointy hats or yellow stars.

[rubato]

For reasons of public safety it is illegal in parts of the US to wear a mask in public except on halloween. Maybe this is just state law?



yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

I suspect, as liberty has alluded, that it goes back to the days when states were trying to suppress the KKK. It's just as stupid. If I live in a cold climate, should I be prohibited from wrapping my face with a scarf or wearing a balaclava to prevent frostbite?

[rubato]

I don't believe that is correct. I think in Calif. it is recent and was done because people were using halloween masks to commit crimes. And of course the KKK are merely a specific example of the general idea that people use masks to commit crimes anonymously.

IMO police are competent to determine that a scarf or other face covering is made necessary by weather.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to require generally that people 'show their face' if they go in public. Your face is your identity.

yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

So right off the bat the enforcement of such a law will be subjective and arbitrary.

[rubato]

So right off the bat the enforcement of such a law will be subjective and arbitrary.

The enforcement of all laws involves the application of judgment. Get over it.

yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

Oh, of that I am well aware, and inevitably it has led to gross injustices.

[Rick]

In Arkansas it is now illeagal to wear ones outer britches lower than their inner britches.

Plumbers crack on the other hand...

[oldr_n_wsr]

or wearing a balaclava to prevent frostbite?

Gotta go with scooter on this one. I wear ski masks and balaclava's regularly during the winter, especially when snowmobiling.

[Rick]

So right off the bat the enforcement of such a law will be subjective and arbitrary.

I've been told I'm not allowed to be arbitrary and/or capricious.

Seriously...

[Gob]

Python eat your heart out..

The first women to be summoned before a European court for illegally wearing burkas were refused entry - because they refused to remove their face coverings.

Najet and Hind who keep their features hidden at all times and refuse to identify themselves beyond their first names, were due to appear before a judge outside Paris.

Both are accused of violating France's so-called 'burka ban', which came into force earlier this year and prevents anyone covering up their faces in public.

But when Hind, a 31-year-old mother, tried to enter the court building in Meaux on Thursday, police held her back, telling her to take her head-covering off.

Najet, meanwhile, simply stayed at home, with the 34-year-old saying she knew she would be stopped from entering.

'For the hearing to go ahead, you must remove the veil. Justice must be administered in a calm atmosphere,' police commissioner Philippe Tireloque told Hind.

Hind, who had brought her own handcuffs to wear as part of an organised protest at the court, replied: 'I'll keep my veil on at all times - it's non-negotiable.

'The law forbids me from expressing myself, and indeed from defending myself. It forces me to dress a certain way, when all I want to do is live according to my religion.'

Police are under strict orders not to remove face coverings themselves, meaning Hind was simply told to leave.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1PZzzB41p

[Gob]

Canada's government has introduced a ban on the wearing of veils while swearing the oath of citizenship.

Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Jason Kenney told a news conference in Montreal anyone wanting to become a Canadian would have to show their face.

He said citizenship judges and MPs had complained it could be hard to tell if veiled applicants were actually reciting the oath.

An estimated 940,000 Muslims live in Canada, about 2.8% of the population.

Veils and face coverings are already banned in Quebec for people receiving some government services.

Canada is considering a wider ban on veils in government offices, schools and hospitals.

Mr Kenney dismissed the idea that the ban could infringe the religious freedom of those taking the oath.

"This is not simply a practical measure," the Conservative minister said on Monday.

"It is a matter of deep principle that goes to the heart of our identity and our values of openness and equality."

He added that Canadian law took priority over religious doctrine.

"In my view Canadian law takes precedence," he said.

"This is a public act of witness in front of your fellow citizens, in front of the law and you should be willing to show yourself in that public act of witness. I think it's very straightforward."

Mr Kenney also announced further language requirements for new immigrants.

Some European countries are also debating the issue. France and Belgium have introduced a ban on wearing the full Islamic veil in public.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16152122

[Scooter]

If they wanted to do it, they should have given the real reason (they don't like it) rather than inventing an excuse about not knowing whether they are reciting the oath. There are dozens or hundreds of people in the room taking the oath in unison, there is no way a citizenship judge could possibly have his eyes on everyone in the room, and have the capacity to read lips besides, to know that what is coming out of their moving mouths is actually the oath.

It's a particularly counterproductive move, because the people standing in that room have expressed a clear desire to integrate into Canadian society by deciding to become citizens. To put roadblocks in their way serves no purpose except to alienate them.

[dgs49]

I wonder how many countries would allow someone to get a passport photo with their face covered. Or a driver's license photo.

Much as I dislike the practice, I think the state's interest can only go so far as to require open faces when it is necessary for a legitimate state purpose - such as verifying identity when stopped for a traffic violation, or registering for some government purpose.

Government must accept cultural expressions of modesty, as long as does not conflict with a legitimate government activity.

But I think the new law in France is not sufficiently severe. The penalty should be 50 lashes, at least.

[Sue U]

I wonder how many countries would allow someone to get a passport photo with their face covered. Or a driver's license photo.

Much as I dislike the practice, I think the state's interest can only go so far as to require open faces when it is necessary for a legitimate state purpose - such as verifying identity when stopped for a traffic violation, or registering for some government purpose.

Government must accept cultural expressions of modesty, as long as does not conflict with a legitimate government activity.

OMG I agree with dgs49. Quick, the smelling salts! (Is there a "smilie" for fainting dead away?)

[Scooter]

Try one of these:

[Guinevere]

I wonder how many countries would allow someone to get a passport photo with their face covered. Or a driver's license photo.

Much as I dislike the practice, I think the state's interest can only go so far as to require open faces when it is necessary for a legitimate state purpose - such as verifying identity when stopped for a traffic violation, or registering for some government purpose.

Government must accept cultural expressions of modesty, as long as does not conflict with a legitimate government activity.

OMG I agree with dgs49. Quick, the smelling salts! (Is there a "smilie" for fainting dead away?)

Me too. Between this post, and the one where Dave complemented Bill Clinton, I suspect he's been bitten with some Christmas (note I didn't say holiday) cheer

[Gob]

You cannot even joke about it any more.

A war veteran and creator of the popular children’s character Fireman Sam has told of how he was insulted and accused of racism at Gatwick Airport after he made a light-hearted remark.

Dave Jones said guards detained him for an hour and asked him how he would feel if he was called a 'drunken old duffer.'

The retired 67-year-old had commented on the ease with which a woman with her face covered by a hijab, a form of burqa, had walked through security.

As he placed his scarf and other items into a tray to pass through an X-ray scanner, Mr Jones quipped to an official: ‘If I was wearing this scarf over my face, I wonder what would happen.’

In what he called an ‘Orwellian nightmare’, he then was led back through security and interrogated before being forced to go through checks again with a policeman behind him, in full view of other passengers.

‘Something like George Orwell’s 1984 now seems to have arrived in Gatwick Airport' said Mr Jones, whose worried daughters - aged 30 and 39 - were waiting for him in the departure lounge.


‘I feel my rights as an individual have been violated.

‘What I underwent amounts to intimidation, unlawful arrest and detention. I was humiliated and denigrated in full public view.

Mr Jones said that when he had made his original remark, the guard had appeared to agree with him, responding: ‘I know what you mean, but we have our rules and you aren’t allowed to say that.’

He added: 'I don't think I've done anything wrong.

‘I am a 67-year-old pensioner and have lived my life within the law.

‘I do not have even one point on my driving licence.’

As he went through security, he was confronted by a woman official who said he was being held because he had made an offensive remark.

Mr Jones, a former member of the Household Cavalry and a retired fireman,denied saying anything racist. But she took his passport and boarding pass and escorted him to another area where she questioned him.

He said: ‘It was impossible to get her to listen to reason. We were then joined by a second female security guard who stated that she was Muslim and was deeply distressed by my comment.'

Mr Jones, who now lives in Portugal and makes bronze statues for Help the Heroes, said he was not even sure the woman had been present when he had spoken - and he has now requested the CCTV footage.

‘I again stated that I had not made a racist remark but purely an observation that we were in a maximum security situation being searched thoroughly while a woman with her face covered walked through,' he added.

‘I made no reference to race or religion. I did not swear or raise my voice.’

After about 20 minutes, he asked the security guard whether he was going to be charged. She said no, but he could not leave until he apologised, and a British Airways manager arrived to join in the row.

'These people were very politically aware, and frightened for their jobs, in my opinion,' added Mr Jones.

He called for a policeman but, he said, it was clear the officer was ‘keeping to the politically correct code’.
He demanded that the officer should arrest him if there was a case against him. Mr Jones said: ‘I was told that we now live in a different time and some things are not to be said.’

The female guard asked Mr Jones how he would feel if she called him a 'drunken old duffer', and eventually asked if he would say he 'could see how his remarks could have been considered offensive.'

A despairing Mr Jones agreed, and was then led through security with a police guard.

'I've heard they have training in how to deal with the public,' he said. 'This guard was abusing her power.

'She certainly shouldn't have been allowed to deal with public.'

Mr Jones, who now lives in the Algarve, added: 'We don't get that sort of thing out here.'

The creator of the much-loved Fireman Sam continues to write books and for cartoons along with his charitable work in his retirement.

He rode on the investiture of the Prince of Wales and visited the Knightsbridge barracks as a VIP guest this week with his two daughters.

A Gatwick Airport spokesman said: ‘Our security team are looking at what happened. The matter was dealt with and the passenger made his journey.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1nWSca9ap

[Lord Jim]

Well, that's what you get when you engage in hate speech....

[Gob]