I just had the weirdest experience . . .

[BoSoxGal]

I'm buying my new used car this week - it's a 2003 Infiniti FX35, not my dream car but I'm getting a screaming good deal on it because it belongs to a friend of my cousin's husband and she's unloading it because her partner passed away.

I just spent some time researching insurance quotes and I returned a call from a guy, a local Geico agent, who had called me after I did an online quote a few weeks ago when I was looking at the RAV4 - his message said he could get me a better rate, so I called him back of course.

I told him on the phone I wanted the legally required liability and no other bells or whistles, please send me a quote via email and I'll get back to you.

The car is not financed and I drive 70 miles a week for work commuting and very few more miles for errands weekly, plus maybe a weekly trip 30 miles RT to visit friends down in Fall River. I take the surface roads and avoid the highways here at all cost - people are insane on the highways here. I have been driving for 38 years and never had an at fault accident - just a few crashes where morons rear ended me, once while I was sitting in a car wash getting Reva cleaned (very weird experience, elderly lady in Yuma with a dog in her lap paid for her carwash ticket then hit gas instead of brake) and once while I was at a dead stop with many other cars at a red light in Alexandria VA and some idiot not paying attention plowed into me.

The agent sent me a quote that was really high, and while running quotes through Experian I got a quote half as much from Geico. I went back and looked at the email and realized he'd written the maximum policy limits. I emailed him back and asked him to fix it and he sent me an email saying he doesn't recommend that coverage and I don't understand the risks!! of having the lawful minimum liability coverage.

WTAF????

I've had the same coverage before through Geico, the entire time after I paid the last payment on Reva and dropped her collision coverage.

Anyway I've just bought the policy and using the online tools I got more discounts, because it bothered to ask me about my memberships and I got a discount for my union membership, good driver, enrollment in the good driver app that will see how lawfully I drive, etc. The agent quoted me over $1k/6 mo. and my ultimate policy was $450/6 mo.

Don't insurance agents work on a commission? Didn't he just lose one for refusing to sell me a lawful policy which Geico lawfully offers in Massachusetts?

[Big RR]

He probably gets a better commission by upping the coverage limits; otherwise, I don't understand his problem with the minimum. Liability should protect your from what your potential liability is likely to be, and there is clearly no reason to insure for higher limits if you have no assets that can be seized (just like if you have substantial assets, an additional umbrella policy might make sense). This guy seems like he's trying to pad his commission.

I've seen the same thing with life insurance, with people carrying much more insurance than they need.

[MajGenl.Meade]

He should have given you the quote you asked for along with a quote for what he recommends. Collision coverage might be good if you are hit by someone else who only has state minimum liability (or no insurance at all). Comp is cheap (but probably you can only get it with Collision). Usually on a car of that vintage, people living above the margin do without comp/coll - they'll just fix their own damage or junk it and buy another one.

As Big RR said, if you don't own anything worth losing in court, then state min might be fine. If you damage someone, they might sue for way above what your insurance will covers - and they won't need to defend you (or themselves) in court.

Of course the agent wants higher commission but he was obtuse not to give you the requested quote. His loss. (And one never knows; he might be under orders from a higher-up to stay away from liab only and concentrate on full coverage - that happens).

[BoSoxGal]

Yeah Big RR what you say makes sense but it's the first time I've experienced this and it pissed me off especially because the email he sent me mansplaining my risks was full of poor grammar and misspellings and he thinks he's smarter than me.

I wrote him back to let him know that I'd purchased my policy online, that I am a 15 year licensed attorney with a 38 year clean driving record and perfectly capable of assessing my risks, that I'd received multiple additional discounts online which he failed to offer me, and wishing him a nice day.

I'm pretty sure because of the tightly regulated insurance marketplace in Massachusetts what he did is actually a violation of insurance regulations, but whatever.

Sure if I owned a house or any other assets beyond a 21 year old vehicle I'd be getting maximum coverage. As it is I'm a stone and nobody is getting any blood from me lol.

eta: Cross-posted with Meade, what you say makes sense also.

[Sue U]

BSG: The risk you didn't account for -- and which is frankly the biggest of all -- is that you may be struck and seriously injured by a driver with no or minimal liability coverage. The MA state liability minimums are 20/40, and no-fault medical (PIP) coverage is $8k. If you are hit by an uninsured/underinsured driver and suffer a leg fracture or a spinal injury, is $20k ($13k if you hire personal injury counsel) going to be sufficient compensation for your pain, suffering, disability, lost income and medical expenses over $8k? (Your PIP coverage will be exhausted within an hour of your arrival at the ER if you have any serious injury.) Nobody ever thinks it's going to happen to them. But your most serious concern in an automobile is protecting yourself from other drivers to the greatest extent possible, not in your potential liability to them.

Just my thoughts as a personal injury attorney who has seen the consequences of under-insurance way too many times.

[BoSoxGal]

Sue, do you honestly think I don't account for that risk every time I get behind the wheel in Masshole-land where most of the drivers are looking at their phones while driving 10-20mph over the speed limit?

That's why I don't drive at certain times of day, why I don't drive on the highways here, why I barely drive at all beyond work and errands to locations within 2 miles of my residence where the speed limit is 30mph or less.

The thing is, I'm a stone. Like tens of millions of working poor Americans, I'm paycheck to paycheck and the $100/mo. difference in premium is a very big thing for me.

Luckily for me, Massachusetts has very good services for disabled people and I'm already on Masshealth insurance. I'll have to rely on the kindness of strangers and loved ones beyond that. Keep your fingers crossed for all us poor folk who live hand to mouth and are one bad stroke of luck away from life devastation.

[Sue U]

I appreciate your circumstances and wish you the best of luck. And not to diminish your concerns about highway driving, where fatality is certainly much more likely, but the vast majority of serious injury cases I have seen occur on "regular" roadways, where someone misses a traffic light or stop sign, or fails to observe that traffic in front of them has stopped (as you yourself have experienced). While I have never had a client who would prefer a cash settlement to having her physical health restored, neither has any client ever refused the money.

[BoSoxGal]

I should add that my anxiety about driving here is so real that my lifestyle is very, very different than it would be if I didn't have it - and frankly $30k more in uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage wouldn't alleviate the anxiety much, because my biggest fear is that I end up like the dead people in many of the accidents I read about on the regular in the local news. A couple of years ago it was a 40 something social worker mother of two young kids on her way to work who died in a fiery crash on 24N when a distracted idiot driver crashed into her car in a work zone and her car burst into flames and nobody could get her out. The horror.

If I didn't have the driving anxiety I do, I'd be at the beach every weekend with my dog. I'd be visiting a lot more state parks with my dog. I'd go into Boston now and then for BSO or museum visits and into Providence for shows at the PPAC etc.

The only thing I really, really miss about Montana is the driving out there, where courtesy is still relatively common and there is a shitload of room on the road between vehicles, so driving 80mph on I90 doesn't seem an issue at all.

I love a lot of things about where I live, but I HATE the driving here.

[BoSoxGal]

I appreciate your circumstances and wish you the best of luck. And not to diminish your concerns about highway driving, where fatality is certainly much more likely, but the vast majority of serious injury cases I have seen occur on "regular" roadways, where someone misses a traffic light or stop sign, or fails to observe that traffic in front of them has stopped (as you yourself have experienced). While I have never had a client who would prefer a cash settlement to having her physical health restored, neither has any client ever refused the money.

I will have to hope that if I ever get hit, it's by somebody with assets lol.

Yeah I do know the stats on accidents - most of them (52%) happen close to home (within 5 miles) and on routine trips. We live on a dead end, but the other end of the road opens into a nightmare - half a block from a major intersection and surrounded by driveways for commercial businesses a couple of blocks both ways both sides of the major state route. Because it's so crazy there, I simply don't drive at certain times of the day. I never drive during the rush hours at start or end of the day - too many people distracted and rushing to get where they are going. I go out early and late and mid morning and mid afternoon when the traffic is much lighter. I design my work schedule and all my other meanderings around the traffic.

I'm a very good defensive driver that's the one thing I unequivocally thank my parents for - they were both careful and defensive drivers and I am always scanning for the accident waiting to happen or when driving rural for the animal ready to jump into my path. I refuse to drive much more than 5mph above the speed limit, no matter how much it pisses off the people behind me - and I don't follow closely in traffic, ever.

I know the odds are likely not in my favor but I hope the three times (once also as a teenager, I wasn't driving my brother was and again, we were stopped dead at a red light and the idiot who plowed into us looked like he was half in the bag) I've already been rear ended, and the one time a woman in the left turn middle lane waited until I was right upon her before pulling right in front of me and poor Reva, has punched my auto accident card enough times that odds are a wee bit in my favor.

Hell is other people, you know.

[Big RR]

BSG--if I'm not mistaken, doesn't MA limit PIP to $8000 which cannot be brought higher? And Sue, after PIP is exhausted, doesn't you personal health insurance kick in?

[Sue U]

BSG--if I'm not mistaken, doesn't MA limit PIP to $8000 which cannot be brought higher? And Sue, after PIP is exhausted, doesn't you personal health insurance kick in?

Health insurance may be available if you have it (many still don't), although some health plans have exclusions for auto-related injuries in states with statutory no-fault PIP. Also, most health plans (including Medicare and Medicaid) have subrogation & reimbursement provisions that require repayment out of any recovery obtained in a third-party liability claim. So even if you got $20k from the at-fault driver's auto insurance, your health plan will take that as reimbursement for its covered medical expenses.

[Crackpot]

Most accidents happen close to home because most driving is done close to home. It’s one of those things that sounds interesting until you actually think about it.

[BoSoxGal]

BSG--if I'm not mistaken, doesn't MA limit PIP to $8000 which cannot be brought higher? And Sue, after PIP is exhausted, doesn't you personal health insurance kick in?

Yes it's just the one amount. Here's some peculiarities about how PIP works in Massachusetts: https://www.valuepenguin.com/car-insura ... sachusetts

[Burning Petard]

Now that I am living alone with adult grandchildren all taking care of themselves, I don't worry at all about a fatal car accident. Reminds me of the days about 50 years ago when motor cycle helmets were becoming useful, thanks to the Snell Foundation research. The public service announcement that really got my attention had the punchline: Sure, you don't need a helmet. Maybe you will get lucky and be killed.

My father and my brother both sold all kinds of insurance for most of their lives. My father occasionally remarked that his customers just did not understand--"insurance companies are not an Eleemosynary Institution." (exact quote, he went on) They are not there to help you Their purpose is to suck money out and return a little as possible in benefits.

Just like most businesses. The ones that stay around for the long haul understand they do better if they do not push this a far as they can.

snailgate.

[liberty]

This is off topic, but I am compelled to ask the question: Why do cars have to cost so much? Why can't cars cost less, last longer, and be easier to fix? Henry Ford constantly reduced the price of his car and made a fortune why aren't manufacturers trying to do that today. They ship jobs overseas because the labor is cheaper, but I don't see any reduction in the cost automobiles.

[Crackpot]

Because the amount of technology in modern automobiles is astronomical. That and everything has to work all the time. For example seat belts revolutionary for their time and relatively simple and easy to understand (except torsion bars those are fairly old tech, but, I contend they work on witchcraft) modern seatbelts are so complex that after over a decade of working with them I still don’t completely understand and am amazed by the guy who actively designs them. (The guy has ping-ponged across suppliers that supply well over 75% of the GLOBAL sales of seatbelts). Personally I get how most of the individual components work (except torsion bars angels or demons are responsible for them) and get how one part triggers another but I still get lost on how everything comes together. And do you want to know what’s the kicker? Outside the bits that are literally triggered by controlled explosions (yes, explosions) they are entirely mechanical.

In short the amount of tech involved in modern automobiles is insane.

[Joe Guy]

......Why can't cars cost less, last longer, and be easier to fix? .......

Some cars cost less than others. All cars last longer (more miles) than they did back when y'all's family vehicle was pulled by actual horses and the new Ford you bought started up with a crank and ran on ethyl. They aren't as easy to fix as they were when they needed fixing all the time but the good news is if you take care of them, they need a lot less fixing.

Model T

Model Y

[Crackpot]

To be fair it was ford that introduced the concept of the assembly line and mass production. Concepts that allowed for replacement parts that were not specifically designed to work with a single other part.

[Big RR]

I just did a quick check on Fords; the Fiesta has a base price in the mid teens, which I would imagine is not that much more, comparatively, than the Model T was in the early 1900s; I recall Ford saying it would cost an average assembly line worker 4 months pay. $16,000 would calculate to 4 months pay for someone making $48,000, which is not that high a wage (even minimum wage is near $30,000). Sure, you can spend a lot more (and many people do but, as Joe Guy said, cars last a lot longer now (as I recall as a kid, most cars needed a major valve job by 60,000 miles) and can be financed over a long time (I have heard 6 to 7 years).

[Burning Petard]

I now have a 7 year old Corolla with 76K on the odometer. I just replaced the serpentine belt. It was showing cracks and I did not want to wait til it broke. That is the first repare/replace I have done under the hood. My 3 previous cars were all Fords and all went the first 100k with nothing done under the hood--not even clean the spark plugs.

My first car, a 1960 slant six Plymouth. Needed an oil change, check the timing with the points and distributor cap, clean the spark plugs, every 2K. But then gas only cost 19.9 per gallon. Soon after I bought that, I bought a 52 Ford to play with. That thing developed cracked distributor caps so frequently that I always carried a new one. Probably was a root cause I should have fixed, but I was too ignorant and cap caps & rotor were cheap.

snailgate.