Happy 4th

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Scooter
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Happy 4th

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Joe Guy
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Joe Guy »

Jose can't you see, right behind you is ICE
You might try but you'll fail, to cross over our border
When you come to this land, be it day or at night
We will send you back home, so just quit all your scheming

Our man Donald's out there! - telling you to be scared!
Each day and each night, so you better beware

Jose, yes our star spangled banner still waves
But you can't live here for free, so go back to your cave.....

($5 million gold card holders welcome)



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BoSoxGal
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Re: Happy 4th

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I won’t be celebrating the 4th of July this year.
What are we celebrating?
Slave owners balancing their prison camp books but rejecting taxation by the nation that sold them their enslaved men, women, and children, which nation itself soon outlawed slavery leaving us to trade those humans stateside like cattle except without the humanity accorded cattle?
The slave owners’ proud progeny now making the teaching of this history illegal?
Exceptional America building fenced camps in our most uninhabitable parts for the people tragically seeking the freedom we advertise like detergent and doing the work we won’t, and selling merch bragging about the cruelty?
A new law, passed just today, that will, literally, kill the poor and reward the rich,
And the White?
Your fireworks this year are like gunshots to our souls.
~Marc Murphy
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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Happy 4th

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Happy 4th

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Bicycle Bill »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:06 pm
 
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Anyone else wondering why there are few if any plans to recognize America's semiquincentennial?   I know the word doesn't roll off the tongue nearly as easy as 'centennial' or 'bicentennial', nor do I expect a rehash of the over-the-top 'Bicentennial Everything' we had in 1976 (as well as the five years or so leading up to it), but still — 250 years is a significant milestone.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Happy 4th

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Bicycle Bill wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:50 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:06 pm
 
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Anyone else wondering why there are few if any plans to recognize America's semiquincentennial?   I know the word doesn't roll off the tongue nearly as easy as 'centennial' or 'bicentennial', nor do I expect a rehash of the over-the-top 'Bicentennial Everything' we had in 1976 (as well as the five years or so leading up to it), but still — 250 years is a significant milestone.
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-"BB"-
There is a shit ton of stuff planned for the 250th in Boston, so much that they’ve planned a year off from the very popular music festival Boston Calling.

I’m watching Boston Pops 4th fireworks spectacular as I type this and it’s like, Boston never heard of the concept too much of a good thing. It’s never ending almost boring like hurry up and get to the end already lol.

I feel sure there must be a ton of stuff planned in DC next year as well?

But of course what kind of country will we be celebrating a year from now? Tonight I spent half the patriotic sing along crying sad tears.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Sue U
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Sue U »

Charlotte's Web Thoughts

What Mr. Ramirez Taught Me
July Fourth means community.

Charlotte Clymer
Jul 04, 2025

For the first half of my kindergarten year, my family lived in a shitty little apartment complex somewhere in Central Texas. I forget where. I think Waco? Copperas Cove? We moved around a lot. If memory serves correctly, I attended three different schools that year.

The apartment complex was right off I-35. We’d fall asleep at night to the muffled rumble of 18-wheelers passing by. The building itself was dingy and sparsely lit. The walls were thin, which meant we’d hear our neighbors’ business, and they definitely heard ours.

The best thing about the property was a flag pole in the middle of the parking lot. It shot up out of a small, circular, grassy island. The metallic shaft was immaculate—shiny and nary a scratch—and the tiny greensward beneath it was surprisingly lush.

I’m not sure when and where I saw it first—probably during that last pre-kindergarten summer during a Nick-at-Nite marathon, episodes of “Hogan’s Heroes” maybe—but at some point, I saw a flag-raising ceremony on television, and it left a big impression.

I don’t remember anything about my first day of school, but I vividly recall the first time I walked outside to wait for the bus and saw Mr. Ramirez go through the process of unfolding the American flag, fastening its eyelets to the snap hooks of the halyard, and then calmly raising it to the top of the pole.

I didn’t know a lot about Mr. Ramirez, and I never did find out much about him. He was probably the property manager or handyman. I’d see him around the complex with his tools, and he always had a smile and a brief, kind word for me. “Hey, kiddo” or something like that.

One morning, during that first month of kindergarten, I walked out to wait for the bus and saw Mr. Ramirez getting ready to hoist the flag. Having now seen this many times on television and now seeing it a few times in-person, I did what my growing brain thought was appropriate: I rendered a salute, my little hand popping up to just above my brow.

He had begun raising the flag when he noticed me standing there—my paw held steady in respect—and cracked the biggest smile and chuckled. You haven’t seen a happier property manager than in that moment. He finished hoisting the flag, secured the halyard, stood at attention, and joined me in saluting it himself.

For the five months I lived there, that became our ritual every school morning, even on some weekends. I’d come outside, Mr. Ramirez would show up with the flag, and we’d do our thing. I don’t think I grasped it at the time, but in retrospect, he got a huge kick out of this. He loved it. I did, too.

A few weeks into this, my mother and I ran into him one afternoon, and he mentioned it to her.

“Your kiddo loves saluting the flag.”

She had no idea what he was talking about. He explained what we did every morning, and she still seemed confused. My mother didn’t give much care to these things. Hers was not the life of respect and discipline. Quite the opposite. It’d have been a rare moment for her to ask if I’d done my homework or bathed.

But Mr. Ramirez did care. On several mornings when I was running a few minutes late, he wouldn’t start without me. I’d dash outside to find him waiting, flag properly fastened, an easy smile to greet me.

“Ready?”

I’d nod, and up the flag went, my salute coming up and then his and the halyard was properly secured and we’d both go about our day.

We never talked outside of this ritual. Mr. Ramirez didn’t know my mother that well, and he probably thought it inappropriate to chat with me beyond our daily ceremony.

Yet even just the fact that a grown adult showed this kind of care meant a lot to me at the time in a way I wouldn’t fully appreciate until much later in life.

With all the trouble at home, all the chaos and uncertainty, all the abuse—things which would take many years to process and contextualize—I knew that every morning, Mr. Ramirez would be there waiting for me.

I’ve thought about him periodically throughout my life — when I was on flag detail during basic training and during NCO school and most times when I see the flag being carried up away from the earth, all those mornings with Mr. Ramirez will briefly revisit me.

It’s very easy to be cynical these days, and it’s especially easy to be cynical about our country. It’s understandable. Every sunrise in America right now brings fresh anxieties about our future. There’s a lot to keep us afraid and tempted into fatalism.

I’m not about to tell y’all that everything is gonna be fine. That would be a lie. We’re in for a lot of pain for the foreseeable future.

But the only way we’re going to get through this painful era is remembering that the best moments in our country are when we look out for each other. It’s when we build community. It’s when we don’t leave others behind.

In the only way he could, Mr. Ramirez showed up for me every morning, reminding me that there were adults who cared about me.

I’m thinking about him today. I hope he’d be proud of me. I hope my sense of citizenship has lived up to his.

Happy Fourth.
GAH!

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Re: Happy 4th

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Maybe this post is a little late for the 4th of July—but here goes anyway.

First of all, I find it ironic that this topic was started by someone who’s not a citizen but a foreigner—someone who seems to have no genuine concern for this country. In fact, I suspect they'd be glad to see it fall apart, especially the systems designed to safeguard liberty.

But the trouble we’re facing this Independence Day isn’t new—it’s been brewing for a long time. Patriotism in America is near an all-time low. It was lower during the Vietnam era, yes—but the current state is still deeply concerning.

That lack of patriotism is evident in how unwilling people are to talk about a military draft, despite the fact that we need one. Our professional army has become too expensive. Retirement benefits are costing us far too much. What we truly need is a smaller, highly trained professional force, backed by a large volunteer or drafted army—one capable of delivering the size and strength needed to defend the country.

Meanwhile, the national debt is spiraling out of control. In just a few years, I believe the interest on the debt may rival the entire defense budget. Yet nobody seems to care. The country suffers from a kind of tax phobia. No politician has the courage to propose new taxes—even when it's clearly necessary.

Who’s to blame for this political timidity? Here's a clue: "I did not have sex with that woman."

That quote turned a moment of national concern into a political spectacle. Is Clinton guilty? yes, let’s not forget that George H. W. Bush raised taxes when it had to be done. If Clinton had acted responsibly or Democrats had called out Clinton and if Congress had held him accountable—we might’ve seen Al Gore elected, and never had a George W. Bush presidency.

The Democratic Party, in my view, is the most hypocritical. If it acted based on principles instead of politics, this country might be far better off today.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Joe Guy
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Joe Guy »

liberty wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 6:35 pm

Who’s to blame for this political timidity? Here's a clue: "I did not have sex with that woman."
As opposed to "'She's not my type"?

liberty wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 6:35 pm
The Democratic Party, in my view, is the most hypocritical. If it acted based on principles instead of politics, this country might be far better off today.

Who was president the last time this country had a balanced budget?

liberty
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Re: Happy 4th

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Let me ask a more important question: Who was the last president to raise taxes?

We would’ve been far better off if we had raised taxes to pay for the programs we needed and wanted—rather than racking up debt that now threatens to cripple the country.

What happens when we can’t make the interest payments on that debt? Answer me that. Because really, that’s the question we should all be asking.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Big RR
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Re: Happy 4th

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Last president to raise taxes? probably Clinton when he gave us our last balanced budget. before him George ("read my lips") HW Bush, and we see what it did to him. But we want our politicians to give us something for nothing, and then we pretend to really believe they can. We are getting what we deserve.

as for a draft, I cannot see we need one; we need highly trained soldiers, etc., and we need to develop a meaningful reserve which will retain them at the ready. Not marching in parades, not policing areas for cigarette butts, but continuous training to be ready to provide support where needed. Expensive? Perhaps; but a hell of a lot better than drafting unmotivated, often less than bright, troops for a 2 year mandatory service where they learn little and do even less. We need quality much more than quantity.

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Joe Guy
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Joe Guy »

liberty wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:41 pm
Let me ask a more important question: Who was the last president to raise taxes?
You answered that earlier -
let’s not forget that George H. W. Bush raised taxes....
liberty wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:41 pm
We would’ve been far better off if we had raised taxes to pay for the programs we needed and wanted—rather than racking up debt that now threatens to cripple the country.
Then in walked Donald's Big Beautiful Bill to add trillions to the US national debt and cut back on programs for low income earners and allow more tax breaks for gazillionaires.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Happy 4th

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Meanwhile a piece on NPR on the commute home reminds me that we are up against a reproductive crisis right when we are deporting the people who make the most babies so not too long down the road our SS will collapse and our military readiness will be facing massive challenges.

This administration is so stupid.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: Happy 4th

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First of all, I find it ironic that this topic was started by someone who’s not a citizen but a foreigner—someone who seems to have no genuine concern for this country. In fact, I suspect they'd be glad to see it fall apart, especially the systems designed to safeguard liberty.

Wow. I can find no better example of Mr. Liberty revealing he cannot read, or even interpret a picture. The first entry in this topic I see as a statement of grief at the loss of systems designed to safeguard liberty. The lady of the harbor, behind a fence and wrapped in barbed wire.

snailgate.

liberty
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by liberty »

Big RR wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 9:04 pm
Last president to raise taxes? probably Clinton when he gave us our last balanced budget. before him George ("read my lips") HW Bush, and we see what it did to him. But we want our politicians to give us something for nothing, and then we pretend to really believe they can. We are getting what we deserve.

as for a draft, I cannot see we need one; we need highly trained soldiers, etc., and we need to develop a meaningful reserve which will retain them at the ready. Not marching in parades, not policing areas for cigarette butts, but continuous training to be ready to provide support where needed. Expensive? Perhaps; but a hell of a lot better than drafting unmotivated, often less than bright, troops for a 2 year mandatory service where they learn little and do even less. We need quality much more than quantity.
Despite what some have claimed since 1921—when Billy Mitchell famously sank a surrendered German battleship with a biplane, the idea that ground warfare is obsolete still hasn’t come true. People said the same thing a century ago, but Ukraine’s recent experience proves otherwise.

Ukraine has lowered the age for drafting and is actively encouraging 18-year-olds to enlist, driven by a desperate need for manpower. I suspect that before it's over, they may even end up drafting 18-year-olds. That’s not just a strategic shift—it’s a reality check. Robotic soldiers may one day revolutionize ground combat, but until that happens, we still rely on people. Lots of them.

And here's the dilemma: the scale of personnel needed for modern warfare exceeds what any nation can afford, especially when long-term benefits like lifetime pensions are factored in. To be clear, those who volunteer and build careers in the military absolutely deserve their pensions. They’ve earned them. But financially, supporting a large standing force with full benefits isn't sustainable in the long run.

The future of warfare may be hybrid—part technological, part human—but today’s battlefield still demands boots on the ground. The conversation we should be having isn't whether ground war is finished, but how we sustain and support the people who fight it.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Bicycle Bill »

liberty wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 6:35 pm
That lack of patriotism is evident in how unwilling people are to talk about a military draft, despite the fact that we need one. Our professional army has become too expensive. Retirement benefits are costing us far too much. What we truly need is a smaller, highly trained professional force, backed by a large volunteer or drafted army — one capable of delivering the size and strength needed to defend the country.
liberty wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2025 6:35 pm
Meanwhile, the national debt is spiraling out of control.
After all, to the victor goes the spoils ... so the grunts on the ground can just loot the losers and enrich themselves that way, right?

A 'volunteer' army is the professional, expensive army we have now, complete with competitive salaries and those pensions and retirement benefits that you apparently think they can do without — not a free, unpaid fighting force like the Montana Militia or any of those other guys playing toy soldier.   And just ask any veteran who was drafted for WWII, Korea, or Vietnam —  draftees get paid too.

Frankly, given all the other nonsense that has come out of the mouth of the Golfer-in-Chief, I'm amazed Trump hasn't tried floating a trial balloon that eviscerates or completely eliminates the benefits afforded by the GI Bill to those who have served in the military so he's got more money to pay for parades, private jets, and multi-billion dollar tax breaks for corporate fat-cats and their corporate interests.
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Big RR
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Big RR »

the idea that ground warfare is obsolete still hasn’t come true
True, but ground warfare is more than a small arms infantry--it's skilled artillery soldiers, and armor, and even air defense artillery launched and maintained by highly trained and skilled men and women. This isn't 1776 where the farmers can run in with their flintocks and prevail against men in tanks. Sure, we still need an infantry, but even they need significant training--and the reserves is a good place for acquiring nay of these skills. Drafting unskilled people to man the battlements might be the best the ukraine can do, but I am certain they'd rather have more tanks, drones, helicopters... There is a place for an infantry, but the skills needed for the infantry today are quite different from the skills needed even 40 years ago. It's not feasible to get them in a 2 year draft; it wasn't feasible even when we last had a draft. And telling the rich "don't worry, we'll save you the taxes by drafting the poor" is disingenuous at best. The russian draftees aren't doing well--we need a professional military, not unmotivated draftees. As for patiotism, if you were in the military as you report you were, I am sure you realize that "patriotism" helps little in any task--especially on the battlefield.

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datsunaholic
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by datsunaholic »

Draftee soldiers cost far more than volunteers. Not individually, but as a group as the turnover is quite high, they don't do a good job since they don't want to be there. Already a lot of disgruntled service persons in a voluntary military. You spend a ton of money training folks only to have them get BCDs.

It goes like this: 1/3 of the military is training the second 1/3 to do the job the third 1/3 is doing.

A better solution would be to eliminate or reduce high year tenure (up or out) and allow enlisted to stay in at an E4 or E5 level to 20 years. Some guys prefer to work rather than lead. If I could have turned wrenches for 20 rather than be forced into a leadership role I was ill suited for and did not want, maybe I might have stayed in.
Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.

Big RR
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Re: Happy 4th

Post by Big RR »

That makes sense. Or maybe they could bring back the specialist track to permit those who did the jobs well to progress in salary but not have to have the responsibility of leadership. It made sense before and could make a lot of sense now. there's no real reason to throw away the training just because someone is happy to continue doing the work.

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