She probably cried to Jesus to save her...

[Scooter]

...instead he let her die in the Texas floods so she could marry him.

[Big RR]

Perhaps Meade could expand on this but, other than the Roman (and perhaps orthodox and maybe Anglican/Episcopalian churches) I am unaware of any christian churches who believe Jesus is the bridegroom of particular members (those exceptions call their nuns/sisters the "brides of christ"); jesus is usually seen as the bridegroom of the church as a whole (I think RC priests are seen that way as well), so I am not sure what the poster is referring to here. But losing a child of any age is traumatic and unbearable pain; if this belief brings her peace. I will not mock it.

[BoSoxGal]

Given what I’ve seen of the majority of marriages, she likely skipped a lot of heartache by passing Go and going straight to a marriage with Jesus in Heaven.

In all seriousness, I have always been puzzled by the contradiction inherent in some religious people’s attitudes toward death. If the afterlife is blissful, why are we so obsessed with not getting there too fast? Aren’t the folks who die young luckier than the folks who have to endure the pains of life in a broken world much longer before they achieve the sweet release of death from the temporal world?

The issue of the living missing the dead is a separate one necessarily- of course the absence of a beloved, especially a child, is going to greatly exacerbate the pains of the temporal world for the survivors.

I had an elder sister who died at six weeks of age because my mother put her face down on the sofa to nap while she went to have a Winston. I’ve been more than a little jealous of that sister since I was a grade schooler and first learned about her - imagine going straight to the arms of Jesus (who loves the little children) and missing out on all the fun of growing up with alcoholic abusive sperm donor and abusive enabler womb bearer? It sounded like a better hand than the one I was dealt.

Just a random thought. I sometimes envy all our friends who haven’t had to see what’s happening in this country at this moment. As an athiest I suspect the only thing that lies beyond is an eternal dirt nap - but that still appeals on many days that I make mistake to watch the news.

[Sue U]

I sometimes envy all our friends who haven’t had to see what’s happening in this country at this moment. As an athiest I suspect the only thing that lies beyond is an eternal dirt nap - but that still appeals on many days that I make mistake to watch the news.

This too shall pass.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Perhaps Meade could expand on this

No, I think you hit it, thank you.

[Big RR]

In all seriousness, I have always been puzzled by the contradiction inherent in some religious people’s attitudes toward death.

I'm sure there are a number of different interpretations, but the way I was taught is that we are here for a reason and have a responsibility to care for each other; not to somehow "earn" a reward in the hereafter, but because that's part of the grand plan. Certainly life (eternal or not) is more than lusting after a final reward, and we should not live our temporal lives eschewing all else; some may die young, others may live a long time, but living and making use of our lives is what we owe to the creator who gave them to us. Indeed, the OT shows many patriarchs who lived hundreds of years to fulfill what god put them here for; even if not literally true, it does teach what is expected.

[Burning Petard]

I have, for most of my adult life, been very skeptical of a divine 'grand plan'. I have very subjective evidence that is all compelling for me that there is a creator and it is not 'a process'. (I have no patience for 'process theology') That evidence persuades me that the prime cause is incomprehensible to individual human critters. I concede that is a very personal stance and I offer it here only as information about me, and not persuasive about anything.

I object to the 'grand plan' as part of my own theodicy. This divine grand plan as I see it referenced by believers and revealed by events, is full of petty cruelty and just plain meanness. I will not worship or even be polite to such a god. To miss-quote one of my favorite literary characters: then I guess I am going to hell.

snailgate.

[Big RR]

BP--I think we are using two different understandings of a defined plans; under yours (ok, not yours but the one you describe) the "plan" is predestined by a supreme being. The alternative, as I understand and presented it, looks more into why we are here. I don't personally believe in apredestined plan of a creator, but I do think the creator has placed us here with an intent (or maybe a wish) that we will act to care for each other and create a just society; IMHO this is not predestined, but more of a hope, much in the way that we have children and hope them to live good and productive lives. Individuals can pervert or reject this, and we have seen the result of this rejection. But, for whatever reason, we have free will and will end up with what we create; some work to make the world a better place, others work to enrich themselves at the expense of others, others purposely harm and victimize others. But we are expected (ro at least it is hoped) to do better.

This is what I see as the "grand plan"; I am sure others may differ.

[ex-khobar Andy]

I've only just now seen this. A good friend of 55 years died on July 17th - I had to break the news to another friend of hers who predated even me - 70+ years. I'll take care of the interment of her ashes in the UK and I'll probably have a priest say some words over the grave. Not because Alice was particularly religious - she wasn't - but because her SO (who lives in Croatia and has medical issues of his own, as we all do now) is. Any words would be wasted on me and I think on Alice but if he derives some comfort, I'm good with it.

[Burning Petard]

BSG-- I can understand. I now watch JBS more than MSNBC but I avoid their current news reports. I too have trouble finding a reason to get up in the morning. Actually, yesterday I never got out of my night shirt. So I find it hard too. but one thing that has made a difference to me is Iris Dement's latest album. Start with the title song, it is sort of a summary of the album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOS7OiL ... rt_radio=1

Today I am gonna go plant a tree.

snailgate.

[BoSoxGal]

I've only just now seen this. A good friend of 55 years died on July 17th - I had to break the news to another friend of hers who predated even me - 70+ years. I'll take care of the interment of her ashes in the UK and I'll probably have a priest say some words over the grave. Not because Alice was particularly religious - she wasn't - but because her SO (who lives in Croatia and has medical issues of his own, as we all do now) is. Any words would be wasted on me and I think on Alice but if he derives some comfort, I'm good with it.

I’m sorry for your loss. While the aches and pains and dysfunctions of my body are a #1 irritant, the hardest part of getting older is all the friends and family and peers and icons we love who stop getting older and leave us to deal with that.

I heard on The Hidden Brain on NPR today that studies show older, elderly adults are happier than younger and middle aged ones despite a long time of medical and research professionals assuming the opposite. Seems the older folks get, the more their brains live in the moment and stop worrying about what already happened and what’s going to happen. I suppose maybe that’s just because waking up itself is the greatest blessing of every day? Anyway hopefully something to look forward to.

[BoSoxGal]

BSG-- I can understand. I now watch JBS more than MSNBC but I avoid their current news reports. I too have trouble finding a reason to get up in the morning. Actually, yesterday I never got out of my night shirt. So I find it hard too. but one thing that has made a difference to me is Iris Dement's latest album. Start with the title song, it is sort of a summary of the album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOS7OiL ... rt_radio=1

Today I am gonna go plant a tree.

snailgate.

That song made me cry, in the good way. I will check out the rest of the album too.

Thank you for planting a tree!

[Burning Petard]

One track--Let Me Be Your Jesus--is just plain wicked. Not fit for mixed company. Probably banned in Oklahoma

snailgate.

[Sue U]

Today I am gonna go plant a tree.

One begins to understand life and its purpose when he plants a tree in whose shade he will never sit.

Also, Iris DeMent is a national treasure. "Our Town" will probably always be my favorite of her songs, and is probably one of the best songs ever written.

[Big RR]

That's where I heard her before. Thanks Sue.