About 14 Years Ago....

[Joe Guy]

..... in 2011, I posted a video in General stuff & Tabloids of a drum solo by Buddy Rich that started a discussion about who is the best, etc. The video I linked is no longer available. I came across this video today and was reminded how talented Mr Rich was at performing creative drum solos and wanted to share it with anyone who might be interested......

[Sue U]

He was certainly an amazing drummer. My favorite though is still Art Blakey.

[Big RR]

I like Rich a lot as well; Blakey too. But I am torn as to who the best drummers are--are they the ones who can perform unbelievably acrobatic drum solos, or are they the ones who provide the percussion the band/orchestra/combo... ? They are often not the same (although some are), and there are excellent drummers of both types (although the names of some of the latter types are not as well known outside the music community).

Also, some types of music--like a lot of jazz--are characterized by individual solos, so the instrumentalists will often stand out in the solos; other types not so much and the backing percussion is more important.

Sue--as an instrumentalist and orchestra member, what do you think?

ETA: For example, in rock/pop (and revealing my age) I am often torn--Ringo Starr (the Beatles) is a drummer who generally avoids drum solos, but he is celebrated by many in the percussion community and having an innate talent to keep a steady beat an infectious swing (when needed); contrasting him with John Bonham of Zeppelin (a personal favorite of mine) with his acrobatics and infectious solos which greatly complement the music and excite the audience, but as to who is the better drummer, I will have to leave that to the individual.

[MajGenl.Meade]

. . . and she has ESP

[Big RR]

????

[Sue U]

When you're talking about people who perform at that level of skill and artistry, I think it makes no sense to argue about who is the "best" (my opinions of certain violinists notwithstanding). It's really a question of whose individual style do you like best in a particular context. You're certainly right, there's a difference between ensemble and solo performance (and between accompanied and unaccompanied solo performance), but again you have to consider what is the goal of the performance, and what performer do you want to hear achieve that goal? Do you want to showcase a particular artist, or do you want a more collective approach? How much "interpretation" or individual style do you want to bring to the piece itself? Are you looking to emphasize technical skill or the music itself? What kind of overall sound do you want to create? I love Art Blakey not so much for his solos -- which were great, of course -- but for how his playing (particularly with the Jazz Messengers) was just so perfect and musically integrated with the rest of the band to create such a satisfying auditory experience. He didn't have to be flashy, you just know it's always there, with creativity bubbling through the straight musical line; he could turn it on at will, but spent most of his time focusing on sheer musicality rather than showmanship.

ETA:

I guess for me what is most important is the effect of the sound overall rather than the display of technical expertise. For any instrument in any genre there is a class of players that develops the highest level of skill, so will always be worth seeing/hearing. But I think of someone like Yo Yo Ma, who is an outstanding player, but always sounds exactly like Yo Yo Ma, no matter what it is he's playing. I refer to him as the Teri Garr of cellists -- not really meaning any disrespect, but his style is so individual and consistent that whatever he plays, he's playing Yo Yo Ma. So of I were to go see him in performance, that's what I would be expecting to hear.

[Big RR]

That makes sense Sue; the context does matter. But personally, I think that the music must drive any performance. Although I do think some may disagree; a pretty broad based example is how some talented vocalists butcher the Star Spangled Banner before sporting events. Sure, there is room for some improvisation, but in many cases the music is barely recognizable and you wouldn't know what they were singing if it wasn't for the familiarity of the words (if you can understand them).

[Sue U]

This morning I was listening to baroque cellist Beilang Zhu who said she once gave a talk analogizing her struggles with a set of pieces to domesticating a wild zebra. But with maturity and a change of perspective, she now realizes that the goal is not to tame the zebra but to become the zebra, thereby setting free the music, the musician and the audience. She then went on to prove the point by giving a beautiful and stunningly deep rendition of Bach cello suite 6.

So I think that's what I look for, the performer who becomes the zebra.

[Big RR]

I like that quote; in " becoming the zebra", it connotes that you will influence the music, and it will influence you, but because you "become" it, the music is always at the foundation of the process. I think, to a greater or lesser extent, its what most musicians attempt to do.

[BoSoxGal]

This morning I was listening to baroque cellist Beilang Zhu who said she once gave a talk analogizing her struggles with a set of pieces to domesticating a wild zebra. But with maturity and a change of perspective, she now realizes that the goal is not to tame the zebra but to become the zebra, thereby setting free the music, the musician and the audience. She then went on to prove the point by giving a beautiful and stunningly deep rendition of Bach cello suite 6.

So I think that's what I look for, the performer who becomes the zebra.

Thank you for this mention, I looked her up and enjoyed a lovely performance (at Helicon, not sure it's the one you were referring to) of suite 6. I've never seen a baroque cello - wow, it seems she has to hold it steady between her legs without an endpin supporting it, what a feat! I took lessons on a modern cello for about 5 minutes in high school, I can't imagine the added complication of the baroque but anyway wow, she's quite something and I will be going down a rabbit hole now . . .

[Sue U]

This morning I was listening to baroque cellist Beilang Zhu who said she once gave a talk analogizing her struggles with a set of pieces to domesticating a wild zebra. But with maturity and a change of perspective, she now realizes that the goal is not to tame the zebra but to become the zebra, thereby setting free the music, the musician and the audience. She then went on to prove the point by giving a beautiful and stunningly deep rendition of Bach cello suite 6.

So I think that's what I look for, the performer who becomes the zebra.

Thank you for this mention, I looked her up and enjoyed a lovely performance (at Helicon, not sure it's the one you were referring to) of suite 6. I've never seen a baroque cello - wow, it seems she has to hold it steady between her legs without an endpin supporting it, what a feat! I took lessons on a modern cello for about 5 minutes in high school, I can't imagine the added complication of the baroque but anyway wow, she's quite something and I will be going down a rabbit hole now . . .

The video I was watching was from the Heifetz Institute (link here.) Note also she is playing a cello piccolo, which has 5 (gut) strings (added E string on top), producing a much different timbre than modern strings. I love the driving energy she brings to the Prelude and her takes on the Allemande and Sarabande are just achingly gorgeous. I understand she also plays viola da gamba so I'd like to see if she's performed/recorded any of the Marais gamba works. Today was my first introduction to her work -- I'm listening to lots of versions of Suite 6 as I recently started working on it myself -- but she is immediately in the top 5 of my favorite cellists.

[BoSoxGal]

the top 5 of my favorite cellists.

Please share this list, thanks!

[Sue U]

the top 5 of my favorite cellists.

Please share this list, thanks!

Currently (soloists, and does not include gamba):

Mischa Maisky (my all-time absolute favorite)
Steven Isserlis
Jean-Guihen Queyras
Ophelie Gaillard
Alisa Weilerstein
Beiliang Zhu*

Jonah Kim
Alban Gerhardt
Lynn Harrell
Yo Yo Ma

[Burning Petard]

Yo Yo M always sounds like Yo Yo Ma. Interesting observation. I don't know what it means. I do know that in less than one measure of music I know the horn of Satchmo or the sax of Paul Desmond. For singers, there are two that I know immediately: The First Lady of Song and in a completely different genre---Doc Watson. Does that instant recognition mean they create a certain sameness in their music? Maybe. But I never get bored by it.

For drummers, I have no favorite. I do like drummers with a certain musicality, who can actually contribute harmony and melody to a small group performance. I still have an extended play 45 that I probably purchased in 1957 called The Drum Suite and is performed by Osie Johnson, Gus Johnston, Teddy Sommer and Don Lamond. with the Manny Albam, Ernie Wilkins Orchestra. It is a sort of time capsule of jazz at that time.

And Sue thank you for your cello list. The sound of the cellos is my preference among all the bowed strings. Beiliang Zhu really knocks me out. But what do you think of Elinor Frey? She seems to prefer to record obscure stuff, makes it hard to compare performances.

snailgate.

[Sue U]

But what do you think of Elinor Frey? She seems to prefer to record obscure stuff, makes it hard to compare performances.

I don't know anything about Elinor Frey. I have not made a study of cellists the way I have violinists and violists; my favorite cellists are (mostly) just people who really grabbed my attention while I was looking for viola repertoire. If Guin were still around she'd be going on and on about Jacqueline DuPre and Mstislav Rostropovich. But because of their era, I guess, they don't turn up so frequently on the digital media searches. (Also, I have become rather fussy about recording quality so hiss from old LPs and flat soundtracks from old videos/film just bug me too much, unless I'm looking for something very specific in a performance.) Lynn Harrell and Yo Yo Ma are on my list largely because they were/are so omnipresent in classical performance and very much shaped what it means to be a modern cellist. If you have artists/recordings to recommend, please do.