So ... rent, basically

[Scooter]

Because keeping people debt slaves for life is the goal.



Can anyone say housing bubble worse than 2008.

[BoSoxGal]

The average age of first time home buyers in 2025 is 40 according to the NYT. So paying a mortgage until age 90? Nice American dream, that.

[datsunaholic]

People have actually been doing that for a long time. Very few people actually hold the same real estate loan for the original contracted time. Constant refinancing often pushes the loan decades beyond the original term, if they keep the house that long. Or interest - only loans. It gets really evil though when the lender impose early payoff fees.

As long as there's no prepayment penalties, the loan term is immaterial. The key is to overpay the principal. Of course I got absolutely skewered back at the old Cafe Darte by one (dearly departed) member for paying off my home loan as fast as I could, him claiming it would be better to invest the money I was using to pay off the loan. He probably would have lauded the 50 year term.

[liberty]

I obtained a three-bedroom, two-bath, brick veneer home for $35,000. I paid cash. I hired a carpenter to build the shell, and I did everything else myself. I never made a mortgage payment and never borrowed a penny. If you really want to do it, you don't have to pay a 30- or 40-year mortgage, or even a 15-year mortgage.

By doing it that way, I saved about 75% of what it would have cost me if I'd done it the traditional way. However, I did have some advantages that other people don't. I have a lot of skills that many people lack—hell, some folks can't even repair a screen door. So, it might not be for everybody. But I'd still say buy a mobile home. It's better to live in a barn that you own than to rent.

[Sue U]

It's better to live in a barn that you own than to rent.

Why?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Hey, we got a 30 year mortgage at age 71 . . . Plan A is to die before it's paid off. Plan B is to sell the place for a profit before Plan A goes into effect

[liberty]

It's better to live in a barn that you own than to rent.

Why?

If you need to ask that question, you have too much money. Short answer: a barn can be turned into a house, room by room. But rent money paid is rent money gone, it doesn't come back.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Where do you live while you're doing up the barn to have a bathroom?

[BoSoxGal]

I’ve been a renter my whole adult life except for a couple of years in Montana when I ‘owned’ a home that I rented from the bank.

The costs associated with home ‘ownership’ are quite extensive and if one doesn’t yet have substantial equity built up allowing for HELOC and/or doesn’t have substantial savings, it can really suck when you suddenly need a new roof, a new furnace, or $35k to repair the pipes going from your home to the point in the street where your home connects to the city water system.

I know the idea is that someday you’ll have a nice nest egg when you finally pay off the mortgage, but depending on how things pan out, that house might end up going to Medicaid to fund your nursing home placement.

And if something happens in your life that you need to move without a lot of lead time, ‘owning’ a home can be a significant liability.

It’s the American dream but it’s not the end all be all and a lot of people are choosing renting over buying not because they can’t buy but because they don’t want to.

[Sue U]

It's better to live in a barn that you own than to rent.

Why?

If you need to ask that question, you have too much money. Short answer: a barn can be turned into a house, room by room. But rent money paid is rent money gone, it doesn't come back.

Do the math. We could have rente and paid about 2/3 what we pay now for mortgage, taxes, utilities, and general upkeep. We will not live here (and may not live at all) long enough to pay off the 30-year mortgage. The "equity" payments and capital improvements we have put into the house over the last 17 years we'll recoup when we sell, adjusted for inflation, maybe do a little better. But if I had rented, I could have invested all that money plus a third of the recurring monthly costs in securities and ended up rather better off financially. It's all about lifestyle choices. I was not going to raise three kids in a barn we were renovating ourselves one room at a time over the course of however many years, while also working full-time jobs, and I don't know anyone who would. I wanted my family to live in a nice home in a safe town with good schools and all the opportunities of middle class life, and that was worth paying a premium.

[Sue U]

I’ve been a renter my whole adult life except for a couple of years in Montana when I ‘owned’ a home that I rented from the bank.

The costs associated with home ‘ownership’ are quite extensive and if one doesn’t yet have substantial equity built up allowing for HELOC and/or doesn’t have substantial savings, it can really suck when you suddenly need a new roof, a new furnace, or $35k to repair the pipes going from your home to the point in the street where your home connects to the city water system.

I know the idea is that someday you’ll have a nice nest egg when you finally pay off the mortgage, but depending on how things pan out, that house might end up going to Medicaid to fund your nursing home placement.

And if something happens in your life that you need to move without a lot of lead time, ‘owning’ a home can be a significant liability.

It’s the American dream but it’s not the end all be all and a lot of people are choosing renting over buying not because they can’t buy but because they don’t want to.

What she said, also too as well.

[Big RR]

I agree; in a way I see home ownership much like Whole Life Insurance, a forced savings that gives you a current benefit (one you can get more cheaply through term insurance), but without the savings side). Home ownership might have some better returns, but there are other investment vehicles, as Sue notes, that could do much better. It really depends what you want. And I still think the housing market is going to have a big adjustment one day--hopefully I will sell before then.

[liberty]

I’ve been a renter my whole adult life except for a couple of years in Montana when I ‘owned’ a home that I rented from the bank.

The costs associated with home ‘ownership’ are quite extensive and if one doesn’t yet have substantial equity built up allowing for HELOC and/or doesn’t have substantial savings, it can really suck when you suddenly need a new roof, a new furnace, or $35k to repair the pipes going from your home to the point in the street where your home connects to the city water system.

I know the idea is that someday you’ll have a nice nest egg when you finally pay off the mortgage, but depending on how things pan out, that house might end up going to Medicaid to fund your nursing home placement.

And if something happens in your life that you need to move without a lot of lead time, ‘owning’ a home can be a significant liability.

It’s the American dream but it’s not the end all be all and a lot of people are choosing renting over buying not because they can’t buy but because they don’t want to.

What she said, also too as well.

As I said, you have too much money. If you're anti-capitalist, you have a strange way of showing it. The banks really love you; I don't think they like me quite so much. I rented from myself for almost 30 years. Did I make a bundle? Boy, I played that sucker for a fool.

A house is a box you live in, strong, waterproof, warm. It has modern conveniences; it's not a status symbol. It's not something to be used for keeping up with the Joneses. It doesn't make you a better or worse person. If it boosts your ego, there's something wrong with you, or maybe you're just materialistic.

Things are meant to be used, not loved. People are for loving; things are for using.

[MajGenl.Meade]

etc etc etc

Par for the course - a non-substantive response to non-existent remarks.

[Big RR]

Lib--as I said, it all depends on what you want. I have had friends who have lived in apartments their entire lives, others who live(d) in trailers/mobile homes, others in small houses, others still in big houses..., I even know some people who have traveled around in an RV since they retired a couple of years ago who have no permanent address and re quite happy; housing is not one size fits all. From reading your posts you seem to want to live in a place you can afford to own and that you can customize as you see fit, and enjoy the satisfaction you get from thinking you somehow beat the system. Congratulations, you have apparently found your niche and have enjoyed it.

[Joe Guy]

.......A house is a box you live in, strong, waterproof, warm. It has modern conveniences; it's not a status symbol. It's not something to be used for keeping up with the Joneses. It doesn't make you a better or worse person. If it boosts your ego, there's something wrong with you, or maybe you're just materialistic.

You seem to be proud of your house since you felt the need to let us know that you did most of the building and put one over on the gubmint.

Things are meant to be used, not loved. People are for loving; things are for using.

I love usin' things....