European Culture

[Bicycle Bill]

Next time your MAGA-leaning associate or co-worker starts talking about how America was settled and founded by Europeans, and how we should control immigration to protect and preserve the European culture that molded our principles, show 'em this —



— then step back and watch the melt down.

-"BB"-

[liberty]

The United States does not have a European culture. What we have is a Western Judeo‑Christian culture influenced by the Enlightenment and a concern for individual rights. Some on the left consider American culture inferior to the cultures of the rest of the world.

Take Mexico, for example. Machismo is often viewed more positively there than in the United States, yet it reflects a stronger patriarchy. A while back, when the Mexican president was groped, the public outrage was not overwhelming but muted. Many people seemed to view it as an example of machismo, a Hombre being Muchacho.

India offers another example. Starvation among Aboriginal tribal people is common, largely caused by the loss of the forests they live in due to urban development and encroachment. And what is the response from much of the general population when the government tries to help these people? Outrage. In our country, that would be called racism, but there it is seen as a cultural difference.

So, does America really have an inferior culture?

[Scooter]

Some on the left consider American culture inferior to the cultures of the rest of the world.

Name two people who have expressed this viewpoint and provide word-for-word quotations that say so.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The United States does not have a European culture. What we have is a Western Judeo‑Christian culture influenced by the Enlightenment and a concern for individual rights

That is the theoretical basis of European culture - so you're saying nothing of any value. It is not the basis of the current administrations plans, actions and anti-American assault on individual rights.

The OP asserts that when rightists speak of "European culture" as the gold standard for the USA, they in reality want to reject Judeo-Christian values, the Enlightenment and all concern for individual rights. They mean "white".

Judeo-Christian values are shared moral principles from Judaism and Christianity, emphasizing
monotheism, the sanctity of life, justice, compassion, personal responsibility, and the divine origin of moral law, rooted in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and New Testament teachings like the Golden Rule ("do unto others"). Not one bit of that is what rightist "christians" wish to see enacted in the USA.

What on earth do Mexicans and India have to do with the proposition under examination here? Why do you go off on some non-existent tangent [So, does America really have an inferior culture?] when that is not remotely related to the subject at hand?

[liberty]

The United States does not have a European culture. What we have is a Western Judeo‑Christian culture influenced by the Enlightenment and a concern for individual rights

That is the theoretical basis of European culture - so you're saying nothing of any value. It is not the basis of the current administrations plans, actions and anti-American assault on individual rights.

The OP asserts that when rightists speak of "European culture" as the gold standard for the USA, they in reality want to reject Judeo-Christian values, the Enlightenment and all concern for individual rights. They mean "white".

Judeo-Christian values are shared moral principles from Judaism and Christianity, emphasizing
monotheism, the sanctity of life, justice, compassion, personal responsibility, and the divine origin of moral law, rooted in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and New Testament teachings like the Golden Rule ("do unto others"). Not one bit of that is what rightist "christians" wish to see enacted in the USA.

What on earth do Mexicans and India have to do with the proposition under examination here? Why do you go off on some non-existent tangent [So, does America really have an inferior culture?] when that is not remotely related to the subject at hand?

BS. I know many conservative Christians reasonably well, and as far as I can tell, they believe in fair play, equal treatment, and genuine concern for others. My brother, for example, was very conservative. One night he got up in the middle of the night, hooked up his tractor, and helped a poor Black couple by pulling their car out of a ditch. He didn’t charge them a dime. He didn’t have to do it, but he did it because they were in distress, and he could help. He saved them a considerable amount of money they would’ve had to spend on a tow truck.

[Joe Guy]

BS. I know many conservative Christians reasonably well, and as far as I can tell, they believe in fair play, equal treatment, and genuine concern for others. My brother, for example, was very conservative. One night he got up in the middle of the night, hooked up his tractor, and helped a poor Black couple by pulling their car out of a ditch. He didn’t charge them a dime. He didn’t have to do it, but he did it because they were in distress, and he could help. He saved them a considerable amount of money they would’ve had to spend on a tow truck.

Holy Moses! Your brother helped a black couple and didn't charge them.

He was a true Christian of unqualifiable quality and his story is tangentially irrelevant subjectwise.

[BoSoxGal]

[MajGenl.Meade]

The OP asserts that when rightists speak of "European culture" .... Not one bit of that is what rightist "christians" wish to see enacted in the USA....

BS. I know many conservative Christians reasonably well, and as far as I can tell, they believe in fair play, equal treatment, and genuine concern for others.

There you go again, creating a false narrative so you can make a pointless 'point'.

(1) Neither I nor anyone else has referred to 'conservative Christians'. How many conservative Christians you know has nothing whatever to do with the discussion at hand

(2) I am a conservative Christian. I am not a rightist 'christian'

(3) Trump is rightist and claims he is a Christian (see First Corinthians 5:12 for clarity)

What exactly was "bullshit" in my words that you quoted (since I never posted anything about "conservative Christians")?

Was it: Judeo-Christian values are shared moral principles from Judaism and Christianity, emphasizing monotheism, the sanctity of life, justice, compassion, personal responsibility, and the divine origin of moral law, rooted in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and New Testament teachings like the Golden Rule ("do unto others")?

or was it this one: That (Western Judeo‑Christian culture influenced by the Enlightenment and a concern for individual rights) is the theoretical basis of European culture?

or this one: The OP asserts that when rightists speak of "European culture" as the gold standard for the USA, they in reality want to reject Judeo-Christian values, the Enlightenment and all concern for individual rights. They mean "white"?

Surely you must be able to articulate the nature of the BS you detected rather than the BS you created?

[Burning Petard]

Corinthians 5:12 ain't bad. I also like Galatians 3:27-28 . That one is particularly interesting when discussing queer and trans issues.

snailgate

[Scooter]

That was pretty radical stuff for the 1st century CE, saying there was no distinction between nationality, or slaves and free people, or genders. Not that the Church, or the European societies it helped shape, did a particularly good job of living up to that ideal, but...

[liberty]

BS. I know many conservative Christians reasonably well, and as far as I can tell, they believe in fair play, equal treatment, and genuine concern for others. My brother, for example, was very conservative. One night he got up in the middle of the night, hooked up his tractor, and helped a poor Black couple by pulling their car out of a ditch. He didn’t charge them a dime. He didn’t have to do it, but he did it because they were in distress, and he could help. He saved them a considerable amount of money they would’ve had to spend on a tow truck.

Holy Moses! Your brother helped a black couple and didn't charge them.

He was a true Christian of unqualifiable quality and his story is tangentially irrelevant subjectwise.

The incident I mentioned was just one of many that I can personally verify. My brother was willing to help anyone. Mead was denigrating conservative Christians, and I attempted to demonstrate that this was not justified. I could have mentioned Lottie Moon.

Her last mission was to China, where she served the poor. During that time, she gave away her own food to those around her who were starving, became severely malnourished, and died on the way home. She was a conservative Southern Baptist Christian missionary.

There is a statue of her at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kentucky. You can organize a group and go tear it down

[Joe Guy]

.......Mead was denigrating conservative Christians, and I attempted to demonstrate that this was not justified......

.......There you go again, creating a false narrative so you can make a pointless 'point'
.......(2) I am a conservative Christian.........

[MajGenl.Meade]

.......Mead was denigrating conservative Christians, and I attempted to demonstrate that this was not justified......

English as a second language? You should beware of ICE, mate.

Lesson 1: rightist 'christian' are not the same words as conservative Christian*?

You (not me) chose the words conservative Christians to set up your usual straw man argument.

Here's your second English language lesson for the day:

straw man: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument



*I note that some people who portray themselves as Christians are in fact 'christians'. i.e. false flag operators

[liberty]

"Goals of the Christian Coalition’s “Contract With the American Family”

1. School Prayer Amendment
Restore organized prayer in public schools

Reverse Supreme Court decisions banning school‑led prayer

2. Restrictions on Abortion
Ban late‑term abortion

Require parental consent for minors

Promote adoption as an alternative

3. Strengthening “Traditional Family Values”
Promote heterosexual marriage

Oppose same‑sex marriage and LGBTQ rights

Encourage abstinence‑based sex education

4. Tax Benefits for Families
Expand child tax credits

Provide tax relief for married couples

Support stay‑at‑home parents through tax policy

5. Support for Homeschooling
Reduce regulations on homeschooling families

Increase parental control over curriculum

Oppose federal oversight of education

6. Anti‑Pornography and “Decency” Laws
Increase restrictions on adult content

Regulate internet pornography

Strengthen obscenity enforcement

7. Religious Liberty Protections
Protect religious expression in public life

Allow religious organizations more freedom in hiring

Oppose what they saw as “government hostility” to Christianity

8. Crime and Punishment
Support harsher sentencing

Promote “tough on crime” policies

Advocate for victims’ rights

9. National Sovereignty
Oppose international treaties seen as limiting U.S. autonomy

Resist UN influence on domestic policy

10. Bioethics
Oppose human cloning

Restrict embryonic stem‑cell research"

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think you didn't spell "Vulture" correctly

[liberty]

"Goals of the Christian Coalition’s “Contract With the American Family”

1. School Prayer Amendment
Restore organized prayer in public schools

Reverse Supreme Court decisions banning school‑led prayer

2. Restrictions on Abortion
Ban late‑term abortion

Require parental consent for minors

Promote adoption as an alternative

3. Strengthening “Traditional Family Values”
Promote heterosexual marriage

Oppose same‑sex marriage and LGBTQ rights

Encourage abstinence‑based sex education

4. Tax Benefits for Families
Expand child tax credits

Provide tax relief for married couples

Support stay‑at‑home parents through tax policy

5. Support for Homeschooling
Reduce regulations on homeschooling families

Increase parental control over curriculum

Oppose federal oversight of education

6. Anti‑Pornography and “Decency” Laws
Increase restrictions on adult content

Regulate internet pornography

Strengthen obscenity enforcement

7. Religious Liberty Protections
Protect religious expression in public life

Allow religious organizations more freedom in hiring

Oppose what they saw as “government hostility” to Christianity

8. Crime and Punishment
Support harsher sentencing

Promote “tough on crime” policies

Advocate for victims’ rights

9. National Sovereignty
Oppose international treaties seen as limiting U.S. autonomy

Resist UN influence on domestic policy

10. Bioethics
Oppose human cloning

Restrict embryonic stem‑cell research"

I have no problems with items 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, and 9. I have concerns about items 3 and 4, depending primarily on what you mean by the language, and I am totally opposed to item 10.

As for item 3, strengthening traditional family values and promoting factual marriage in terms of people joining together, I am fully in favor. I do, however, have concerns about opposing same sex marriage; and I have no problem with encouraging abstinence education, although I do not know how much good it will do without religious training. As for tax benefits for expanded families, our national budgets cannot afford to give tax credits for anything at this point.

Regarding same sex marriage, I think states should get completely out of the business of issuing marriage licenses. If you are not going to require genetic testing, then the licenses serve no real purpose; they are simply a waste of time. It is not the business of the state what individuals choose to do privately. Any contract that consenting adults make should be honored by the state. As far as I am concerned, people can marry their goldfish, their dog, or a mule if they want; I absolutely do not care.

Now, regarding why I am opposed to item 10, I oppose anything that might restrict research; and I am even willing to tolerate human cloning if it may add to the knowledge base.