Terrorist Blonde Woman Rams ICE Vehicle!!

[Big RR]

Police officers can lawfully stop someone who is openly carrying a firearm, inspect the weapon, and order the person to leave an area if they believe it is necessary for public safety. Private citizens do not have that authority, and Kyle had no legal obligation to obey them.

FWIW, nor do ICE "officers"; they are not a police force and they have no right to detain or question US citizens, and only a limited right to detain undocumented aliens. But that doesn't stop them.

[Big RR]

Police officers can lawfully stop someone who is openly carrying a firearm, inspect the weapon, and order the person to leave an area if they believe it is necessary for public safety. Private citizens do not have that authority, and Kyle had no legal obligation to obey them.

FWIW, nor do ICE "officers"; they are not a police force and they have no right to detain or question US citizens, and only a limited right to detain undocumented (and sometimes documented) aliens. But that doesn't stop them.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Kyle was not being pursued by police officers; he was being chased by private individuals acting as vigilantes.

The stupid bastard shouldn't have been parading around acting as a vigilante himself - showing up with a bunch of armed fascists determined to provoke breaches of the peace with no authority whatsoever. It's a shame he didn't get offed as well.

[liberty]

Kyle was not being pursued by police officers; he was being chased by private individuals acting as vigilantes.

The stupid bastard shouldn't have been parading around acting as a vigilante himself - showing up with a bunch of armed fascists determined to provoke breaches of the peace with no authority whatsoever. It's a shame he didn't get offed as well.

He wasn’t parading, and he didn’t attack anyone. He was leaving the scene and walking toward his car to go home when he was chased by three individuals acting as vigilantes. That’s why he was acquitted.

[liberty]

Police officers can lawfully stop someone who is openly carrying a firearm, inspect the weapon, and order the person to leave an area if they believe it is necessary for public safety. Private citizens do not have that authority, and Kyle had no legal obligation to obey them.

FWIW, nor do ICE "officers"; they are not a police force and they have no right to detain or question US citizens, and only a limited right to detain undocumented (and sometimes documented) aliens. But that doesn't stop them.

I know you’re smart, so maybe you should look it up — but I really believe you’re wrong on that point. It’s true that ICE can’t do drug busts or general criminal investigations like the FBI, but they can arrest someone for interfering with their operations, including American citizens or political figures.

[Big RR]

You are partially correct; they do have some limited right to arrest/detain persons actively obstructing them, bu they have no authority to detain US citizens in their facilities and must release or turn them over to legitimate law enforcement for charging and adjudication. Not saying they always comply with these restrictions (and we have seen the results of these overreaches i n lawsuits), but they do not have broad based police authority to detain citizens. Their jurisdiction is very limited.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Is there some universal definition of 'police'? The ICE guys have POLICE on their uniforms, but AFAIK they are not police and do not have those powers.

[MajGenl.Meade]

He wasn’t parading, and he didn’t attack anyone. He was leaving the scene and walking toward his car to go home when he was chased by three individuals acting as vigilantes. That’s why he was acquitted.

I'll not defend those who attacked him. So you stop defending his provocative parading around with a bunch of gun-toting thugs, agents provocateurs, who (like him) drove miles out of their way to provoke confrontation and violence, acting as vigilantes. Even the police, playing nicely, tried to get the extra-judicial folks like him to f-off and stop waving their dicks (AKA AK47s etc).

[Big RR]

Is there some universal definition of 'police'? The ICE guys have POLICE on their uniforms, but AFAIK they are not police and do not have those powers.

If I recall correctly, police are generally recognized as state entities that have broad based law enfo4rcement powers under the state power to police. Federal law enforcement officers are much more limited in scope (as the Constitution provides no policing power to the federal government), but some have power to enforce federal laws and effect arrests for breach of them under some circumstances (FWIW, this is true of ordinary citizens as well who can arrest for breaches of federal (or state) laws under prescribed circumstances).

While ICE agents might be wearing Police vests to feed their egos and claim they are "real" police (I recall when I was in college the Campus Patrol (security) members pushed big to change the name to University Police for pretty much the same reason), it is also possible that it is used to identify law enforcement officers of all types in the event of violent confrontations; I presume there is some law or regulation that permits them to wear this. But they are not police in the traditional sense, anymore than security or even prison guards are, and they do not have a vroad basd policing power.

Maybe BSG could weigh in on this as well as her experience would be valuable.

[liberty]

Is there some universal definition of 'police'? The ICE guys have POLICE on their uniforms, but AFAIK they are not police and do not have those powers.

If I recall correctly, police are generally recognized as state entities that have broad based law enfo4rcement powers under the state power to police. Federal law enforcement officers are much more limited in scope (as the Constitution provides no policing power to the federal government), but some have power to enforce federal laws and effect arrests for breach of them under some circumstances (FWIW, this is true of ordinary citizens as well who can arrest for breaches of federal (or state) laws under prescribed circumstances).

While ICE agents might be wearing Police vests to feed their egos and claim they are "real" police (I recall when I was in college the Campus Patrol (security) members pushed big to change the name to University Police for pretty much the same reason), it is also possible that it is used to identify law enforcement officers of all types in the event of violent confrontations; I presume there is some law or regulation that permits them to wear this. But they are not police in the traditional sense, anymore than security or even prison guards are, and they do not have a vroad basd policing power.

Maybe BSG could weigh in on this as well as her experience would be valuable.

In the Deep South, prison guards generally have limited authority to make arrests in cases where they personally observe a felony, but they are required only to detain the suspect until local police arrive. In Alabama, I believe prison guards are sworn officers with limited police powers.