Do Lesbians Really Exist?

[dgs49]

The 25th anniversary of the movie, “Top Gun” and stories about the more recent lives of its “stars” have brought my attention again to the relatively recent declaration by the twice-married female lead in the film, Kelly McGillis, that she has “come out” as a lesbian. A few years ago, similar stories were printed about the actress known occasionally as Meredith Baxter. Adding spice to these two announcements was the fact that both of them had been “sexy babes” in their younger years – that is to say, the object of much sexual admiration by men.

What exactly does it mean when they now say they are lesbians? Did they change? Did they finally admit that they were living a lie? Did they recently discover something about themselves?

None of the above.

On the other side of the Great Divide, there are men who, for one reason or another, have mis-directed libido’s, causing them to have the same kind of “horny” reactions to “attractive” males that normal males have to attractive women. These reactions can be – and often are - psychological, physiological, and emotional. Specifically, when a normal man encounters, for example, a young woman who looks like Gwynneth Paltrow, he will likely make positive assumptions about her personality and her intelligence; he may have an instantaneous physical reaction to her propinquity (get a “woodie”), and one might suspect that he might even “fall in love” with her, given even the least amount of encouragement from her. Without question, he will consider what it would be like to copulate with her, probably even fantasizing extensively (if you know what I mean) about that unlikely eventuality.

Homosexuals can have the same sorts of reactions when encountering a man that they find attractive. Indeed, this is what it means to be homosexual. But for a normal guy, it just ain’t happenin’.

My impression is that the female side of the Great Divide is quite a bit different. Correct me if I’m wrong.

In the normal case, a woman who encounters a man whom she considers to be attractive does not instantly have a desire to copulate with that man. She may imagine sharing other affectionate acts and experiences with the “object of her affection,” but copulation is not the first thing that comes to mind. Indeed, were it not for the (desirable?) prospect of having children, many -, if not most – women could live with a long-term relationship with an “attractive” man that involved some intimacy and lots of acts of affection, but NO sex, and be perfectly satisfied with that. How many women would have gladly had “platonic” relationships with Rock Hudson? (That concept is unthinkable to a man, gay or straight).

And our culture has evolved to a point where the heterosexual relationships that are generally available to single adult women (let’s say, over 30) are uniformly unacceptable. Adult single men (assuming such things exist) are selfish, unclean, uncouth, and uncaring, yet they expect sexual intercourse as a virtual quid pro quo for their time and attentions. And there is no guarantee whatsoever that the sexual intercourse will be the least bit gratifying to the woman. And the longer a relationship goes on, the more the woman is taken for granted and the less satisfying the relationship becomes. Take away the cultural and psychological “need” for a “secure relationship,” and there is no reason whatsoever for an adult woman to even consider consorting with her male counterparts. All the desirable men are off the market by the time they are 35.

So you are Kelly McGillis. You are two-or-three-times divorced. You are getting older and are not as attractive as you used to be to men; the heterosexual relationships that present themselves are conspicuously undesirable. In fact, you see no reason to play that particular game any more.

But you still crave “love” and affection (as any human does), and find that the people you have most in common with – the people with whom you could have the most fulfilling overall relationships at this time of life – are other women about your age. Sex is not really a part of the equation, but it would not be too repulsive to engage in an occasional session of mutual masturbation, in order to achieve some well-deserved sexual gratification. There is nothing wrong with the Parts, after all.

Lesbians? “Out of the closet”? I don’t buy it.

There is, I submit, no equivalence on the two sides of the Great Divide. Homosexuals are actively, sexually attracted to other men. But lesbians are more defined by a lack of attraction to men and a desire to seek “love” and affection “someplace else.” Sexual attraction to people of the same gender is not the defining aspect of lesbianism as it is for homosexuality, and in may not even be present in most “lesbians.” Lesbians experience a personal attraction, seasoned by the prospect of occasional sex play. That’s it.

Lesbian is not the equal counterpart of homosexual. They are completely different orientations, united only by abnormality and bizarre social organizations on college campi.

[Gob]

I love you Dave, thanks for your contributions.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Interesting theory.

women could live with a long-term relationship with an “attractive” man that involved some intimacy and lots of acts of affection, but NO sex, and be perfectly satisfied with that.

Having recent prostate problems which have affected our sex life, I can say that the "NO sex, and be perfectly satisfied with that" is patently false.

[dgs49]

O&W:

My statement was about "...many - if not most - women..." Can you speak authoritatively for the general population of older women?

Are you a woman?

Depends on the relationship, doesn't it? Some relationships can do well without sex and others can't. Usually the Man is the driving force and the initiator of sex.

As I have written here before, it is not so long ago (before the age of convenient, effective birth control) when sexual intercourse became a rare event in MOST marriages at the point when they decided that more children would be undesirable. And this was when the couple was still relatively young in most cases. Did they go back to having sex when the woman passed mental-pause? I don't know.

[Gob]

Depends on the relationship, doesn't it? Some relationships can do well without sex and others can't. Usually the Man is the driving force and the initiator of sex.

Speak for yourself.....

[Sean]

O&W:

My statement was about "...many - if not most - women..." Can you speak authoritatively for the general population of older women?

Can you?

[loCAtek]

Wait, what? Are you suggesting that lesbians don't have sex? O r that it isn't sex if there is no penetration? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I think I glean from your writing.

Now, my hetro preference for penetration assures me, that I'm not lesbian, but I don't deny that other female's pleasure for non-male stimulation exists. Whatever floats your little man in the boat, say I.

[Daisy]

Depends on the relationship, doesn't it? Some relationships can do well without sex and others can't. Usually the Man is the driving force and the initiator of sex.

Paaaaaaahhh!!!!

[rubato]

In my experience men are more clearly divided into Heterosexual and Homosexual preferences with relatively few in the middle ground. But I've known several women who have gone from one to the other and then back again and enjoyed both sex and relationships with both men and women. AFAIK the issue had nothing to do with preferring penetration but more to do with looking for a relationship that worked both sensually and emotionally.

yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

What Daisy said. Seriously, where do all of these misconceptions about women come from? Please, please, stop reading Cosmopolitan, gentlemen.

As for Kelly McGillis, from what I understood, she was always a lesbian, and perhaps only recently was able the come to terms with herself on that score. Cmon, no leading lady or leading man wanted to be branded with the "homosexual" label back in the 80s, and I suspect many people (and perhaps a higher percentage of those in the spotlight) tried to live the "expected" life rather than the life they wanted. Kudos to her for being true to herself.

[Jarlaxle]

Seriously, where do all of these misconceptions about women come from?

Dave/Mort is a misogynistic pig. No more and no less.

[The Hen]

What Daisy said. Seriously, where do all of these misconceptions about women come from?

Virgins?

[dgs49]

What I have postulated - in summary - is that many of those who self-identify as "lesbians" are not sexually attracted to other women (as is the case with homosexuals vis a vis other men), but rather are repulsed by the prospect of a sexual relationship with a man, and are seeking a total relationship with another woman (or women), of which sexual activity may or may not play a significant part. It gets back to "What is a lesbian?" It is NOT the mirror-image of a homosexual.

There is nothing misogynistic about it.

Thus far, not a single poster has responded to this basic point - either to agree or disagree. At any time in her confused, mixed-up life, was Kelly McGillis lusting after other women?

I rather doubt it.

[Joe Guy]

What you are really saying is that women are different than men in the way they form relationships and what they want and need from those relationships.

I think we all know that.

So, a lesbian has the emotions and needs of a woman and wants to be with other similar women just as a gay man has the emotions and needs of a man and wants to be with similar men.

Lesbians aren't 'mirror images' of gay men and women aren't mirror images of men.

There's not much to argue about.

[@meric@nwom@n]

What Daisy said. Seriously, where do all of these misconceptions about women come from?

Virgins?

Mostly it's from clueless men I think. They think they have a clue but they don't then they sit back and wonder why their relationships are lackluster.

[loCAtek]

I disagree dsg49, I live in the SF Bay Area, perhaps the homosexual Capitol of the World of male and female homosexuals, and have known and do know lesbian persons.
I can assure you these females are attracted to females, since on occasion, they've been attracted to me. A non-sexual relationship is called a friendship, but Lesbians are not fully satisfied with those, (just as heteros are not)and seek romantic, erotic encounters with the sex they are attracted to. .