Looking Presidential

[dales]

My main gripe with Obama had been his "lack of leadership".

However, I must say that ever since he gave the orders to whack Bin Laden my opinion of him as a "decisive leader" has risen.

Props!

[dgs49]

KNowing that the groundwork for this caper has been going on for at least 8 years, what did you expect him to do?

Decline?

He was backed into a corner and had no choice to go forward.

Point me to something significant he did on his own initiative.

[loCAtek]

true 'dat

[Scooter]

KNowing that the groundwork for this caper has been going on for at least 8 years, what did you expect him to do?

Decline?

He was backed into a corner and had no choice to go forward.

Point me to something significant he did on his own initiative.

There were a LOT of things that could have gone wrong; intelligence is never perfect and who know what might have happened had there been a few dozen more armed guards in that compound. If the mission had failed, and especially if a number of members of the ops team had been killed and/or captured (with video of them on display, perhaps while being tortured, broadcast around the world) it would have been a blot on this presidency from which Obama would have NEVER recovered. If he had chosen to do nothing, no one would have been the wiser, because the fact that bin Laden's whereabouts were known would NEVER have been revealed. He took a HUGE risk and it paid off, but god forbid you could even begrudgingly admit that from the safety of your armchair, where the riskiest decision you will ever make is whether your next beer should be regular or light.

[Joe Guy]

KNowing that the groundwork for this caper has been going on for at least 8 years, what did you expect him to do?

Decline?

He was backed into a corner and had no choice to go forward.

Point me to something significant he did on his own initiative.

It is obvious that in your eyes, dgs49, if Obama had personally held the weapon & shot and killed Bin Laden, you would claim that those who started the search for Bin Laden years ago should be given credit and that Obama had no choice and should not be credited for what he did.

You're showing your prejudice, like so many right wing talk show wackos are currently doing.

I believe you're much smarter than that, but your political beliefs seem to influence your thought process to the point that they override your intellectual thought process and shift you into a lower mental gear.

[@meric@nwom@n]

From a facebook friend:

Saying President Obama is not responsible for the death of bin Laden because he didn't pull the trigger is like saying bin Laden is not responsible for 9/11 because he didn't fly the planes.

[Crackpot]

From a facebook friend:

Saying President Obama is not responsible for the death of bin Laden because he didn't pull the trigger is like saying bin Laden is not responsible for 9/11 because he didn't fly the planes.

So it all works itself out in the end then.

[dgs49]

I don't think politicians should be lauded for doing things that they were compelled by circumstance to do.

Rudi Giuliani was given way too much credit for his action post-9/11. He did what anyone else in his position would have done, nothing more.

Certainly, there were risks associated with this Bin Laden mission. OBL might not have been there, his security guards might have been able to successfully drive off the attackers, or to destroy the getaway helicopters. It might have ended up a complete fiasco like Carter's attempted rescue of the hostages in Iran. He rolled the dice (rumor has it that it took him 16 hours to actually make the decision). So what?

But if BHO had been president in 2001, he would not have put in motion the same type of manhunt that Bush43 did. He would have tried to get an indictment in an international court, and treated this as a "law enforcement" issue. His personal choice - there can be no doubt - would have been to capture OBL and bring him back for some sort of show-trial in New York. It is only because of the groundwork laid by Bush43 that this whole thing came about. Even now, he is more concerned about offending those who hate the U.S. than he is about getting out the "proof" that the world wants to see.

He is a pussy. A black Phil Donahue.

His only sensible policies w/r/t the current conflicts are the ones that (a) he opposed as a candidate, (b) he inherited when he came into office, and (c) he has reluctantly been forced to continue. Examples: Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Show me an initiative that he has undertaken as President that shows leadership and good judgment. His next one will be the first.

I guess my skepticism exposes me as a racist.

[Daisy]

I don't normally wade into threads around US politics .... BUT

He is a pussy. A black Phil Donahue.

What the flying fuck has this mans skin colour got to do with anything??

It doesn't just make you LOOK like a racist ... this comment MAKES you one.

[Scooter]

But if BHO had been president in 2001, he would not have put in motion the same type of manhunt that Bush43 did.

On that we absolutely agree. He would not have dropped the ball in looking for OBL by beginning a senseless war in Iraq and which is plaguing your country to this day will continue to do so for decades.

I guess my skepticism exposes me as a racist.

You were exposed as a racist long before now. Using the term "knee-grows" is one example that comes to mind.

[Sue U]

I don't think politicians should be lauded for doing things that they were compelled by circumstance to do.

Obama was not compelled to launch an assassination of Osama bin Laden. There were numerous reasons to not have him killed. Aside from the colossal gamble that the operation might have ended in failure, there is obviously great political value to keeping a boogeyman out there to gin up fear at election time -- just as GW Bush played it.

But if BHO had been president in 2001, he would not have put in motion the same type of manhunt that Bush43 did. He would have tried to get an indictment in an international court, and treated this as a "law enforcement" issue. His personal choice - there can be no doubt - would have been to capture OBL and bring him back for some sort of show-trial in New York. It is only because of the groundwork laid by Bush43 that this whole thing came about. Even now, he is more concerned about offending those who hate the U.S. than he is about getting out the "proof" that the world wants to see.

You are delusional. You don't think ANY president would have initiated a massive manhunt for the head of an organization that attacked a U.S. city? Bush certainly deserves no special credit for that; circumstances compelled him to do so, as they would have compelled any president. But if bin Laden and the al Qaeda terrorists had been pursued as the criminals they are, rather than as a vehicle to fulfill Bush's fantasies of being a "war president," we wouldn't be facing the disaster that has resulted from seven-plus years of mismanagement and neglect of the operation in Afghanistan nor the totally unnecessary and highly counterproductive war in Iraq. Neither Obama nor any president would have sought an indictment in an international court; the DOJ could readily have had the conspirators indicted in a US court, tried and convicted them according to standard criminal procedures and thrown them in a US prison as the criminals they are. Bush unnecessarily elevated this whole matter into intractable and economically unsustainable military adventures, and now we are paying the price both domestically and around the world.

I guess my skepticism exposes me as a racist.

No, your racism exposes you as a racist.

[Beer Sponge]

I guess my skepticism exposes me as a racist.

No, your racism exposes you as a racist.

BOOM! Headshot!

[Long Run]

He should get the credit for supporting the program that eventually led to finding OBL, and then making the final call on the mission. I understand people saying that he shouldn't get full credit, but he should get plenty of credit for OBL's demise. There is plenty to criticize about any administration, but I don't get the nitpicking over something everyone agrees was a necessary action. Of course, such nitpicking is all about politics (trying to not allow Obama have an opinion poll bump) which is silly. In the 24-hour news cycle, this high point will have lost its oomph long before anyone casts a vote next year.

[Grim Reaper]

But if BHO had been president in 2001, he would not have put in motion the same type of manhunt that Bush43 did.

You mean the manhunt that President Bush gave up on after a couple years so he could focus more on playing cowboy in Iraq?

Oh, and we already know that the alternative, McCain, would not have initiated this attack. He would have let Bin Laden get away by trying to work with the Pakistani government that wasn't interested in helping us very much.

The simple fact is that President Obama did what the Republicans would not have done. And if the Republicans had done it, you would still be cheering for them and saying the Democrats would never have done the same thing.

[loCAtek]

Wot? It had to be done, no matter who was in office. The intel being gathered in Gitmo, (which was why it was never shut down, regardless campaign promises) demonstrated that. It seems there was much that the PreZ learned in office, that was in place for the good of the country, during these times.

This wasn't done by Obama, but during his administration.

[The Hen]

Most things are done during somebodies administration.

Timing is everything.

[Gob]

US President Barack Obama has said he would order a similar operation to that which killed Osama Bin Laden if another militant leader was found in Pakistan.

He said the US was mindful of Pakistani sovereignty but said the US could not allow "active plans to come to fruition without us taking some action".

The killing of Bin Laden by US forces in a Pakistani garrison town on 2 May strained ties between the two allies.

President Obama was speaking to the BBC ahead of a European visit.

Asked what he would do if one of al-Qaeda's top leaders, or the Taliban leader Mullah Omar, was tracked down to a location in Pakistan or another sovereign territory, he said the US would take unilateral action if required.

"Our job is to secure the United States," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr during a wide-ranging interview.

"We are very respectful of the sovereignty of Pakistan. But we cannot allow someone who is actively planning to kill our people or our allies' people.

"We can't allow those kind of active plans to come to fruition without us taking some action."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/13478318

Edited to add;

What was he like to interview? Very focused, very clever. Once or twice he saw where I might be heading, and expertly headed me off at the pass.



Once I got a steely look and a "that's enough of that" kind of answer. He grinned at a couple of the questions, and was as nuanced, careful and balanced as his reputation suggested.

But he wasn't bland. Two or three times he gave me much crunchier, newsier answers than I was expecting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13485209

[rubato]

I don't think politicians should be lauded for doing things that they were compelled by circumstance to do.
... "

He was compelled by circumstances only to make a decision. What the decision was was his alone.

BTW Carter made the right decision to launch a rescue mission, the US military failed him. To their credit they admitted their failure and took steps to correct it in future.


yrs,
rubato

[loCAtek]

While Obama made the final decision, who do you think did all the heavy lifting?

The President was called in from a golf game; who had been sitting at the table for hours, and had been working this operation from the start?






They call this his iconic photo, but he looks like no more than a spectator to the people doing the real job. To me, Hillary looks the most invested.

[Crackpot]

I see what you mean Lo after all the one military guy in the room looks asleep!