Skippy survives...

[The Hen]

This story from the US is what made me so mad about this case.



Christie Carr has adopted a Red Kangaroo With a broken back as her son.

Have you ever seen anything that needed to be put down more than that?

(Potentially, I am not just talking about the Roo.)

[rubato]

God save us from self-involved bambis like that.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

Native to Australia, healthy male great red kangaroos can grow up to 7 feet tall, weigh more than 200 pounds and bound 25 feet in a single leap.

They used to have a small mob of these big buggers at the local nature park. The went up in the Bushfires. She's lucky that one is not likely to grow fully, you wouldn’t want to screw with them...

[@meric@nwom@n]

She may not be doing the right thing (Jim I would not question Hen's authority on this topic if I am not mistaken she wrote animal welfare legislation for her state until recently) but at least her heart in in the right place.

[Aard Vark]

Being one who has found joies in the pouch after mother was shot hit by car and trucks even found one dumped by mum while being chased by wild dogs.
I know people in NSW and QLD that have raised roos and Koalas sucsesfully. They live on farms and have years of hands on leaning under the belt. So if you know what to do and you pick up a Koala joie after a bush fire, blind in one eye and missing most of it's claws? You rais it in the back yard with the watchfull eye of a guard dog to keep him safe for the last 8 years. Not a bad thing to do for an endagered species, I don't know if that one ever bread but at least it had a chance to.

Here is the stupid part to the story if you find a Joie pink or not and you don't report it to Parks and Wildlife you may be charged with it's demise. If you pick it up for rescue you can be charged for removing the joie and if you take it home yep not aloud to do that either. The worest of it all comes from the chance of if someone sees you humainly dispaching a joie pink or not you will most probibly get charged under the Animal curlity act.

So what should you do?

[alice]

All States and Territories do not allow registered wildlife carers to nurse pinkies. The roo, should it survive will never be able to be released

My apologies - I'm not sure if you mean that some states, but not all, do not allow the carers to care for hairless joeys, or whether you mean that no state or territory allows this.

My understanding is that at least some states do allow this.

Below are links re some of the reputable animal care organisations which detail care of unfurred kangaroos:
RSPCA Victoria: http://www.rspcavic.org/animal_care/wildlife_care.htm discusses unfurred or finely furred kangaroos
Fauna Rescue of SA Inc [South Australia] http://www.faunarescue.org.au/kangaroos.htm provides a lot of detail, including care of furless joeys
The Marsupial Society of Australia [South Australia] http://www.marsupialsociety.org/hand_rearing.html and http://www.marsupialsociety.org/members/04wi02.html
Native Animal Rescue (Flora rehabilitation foundation) [Western Australia]http://www.nativeanimalrescue.org.au/Na ... joeys.aspx
Chidlow Marsupial Hospital [Western Audtralia]http://www.chidlowmarsupialhospital.org ... young.html this is the organisation previously linked by Scooter, and they discuss care of furless joeys
Department of Environment and Conservation [Western Australia]http://www.dec.wa.gov.au/component/opti ... emid,2219/
Tasfauna Wildlife rehabilitation [Tasmania] http://tasfauna.org/animals.php article mentions some babies being brought in still at the hairless or 'pinky' stage
Wildlife Information Rescue Education Service (WIRES) [Australia Wide] http://www.youngwitness.com.au/news/loc ... 58669.aspx newspaper article re WIRED volunteer in NSW raisning a pink, hairless two month old joey
Australia Zoo Wildlife warriors [Queensland] http://wildlifewarriors.org.au/wildlife ... chive.html article re rescued pinky joey being placed into the care of an experioenced macropod carer after the joey's mother died
FAWNA (For Australian Wildlife Needing Aid) [New South Wales] newspaper article re a rescued joey which states the legislation as "all fauna must be surrendered to a licensed wildlife rescue and care group as soon as possible and no longer than seven days after encountering the animal."
Wildlife Care centre Richmond {New South Wales]http://nswfmpa.org/Husbandry%20Manuals/ ... allaby.pdf PDF article detailing care of Wallabies, includes a section on handrearing orphaned joeys, including unfurred joeys

Other links that lead to links of Victorian animal rescue organisations and info sheets:
http://lyndastaker.hainsnet.com/
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/plants-and-an ... anisations

All wildlife carers must be licenced/registered with the appropriate State Government Agencies, and there are very strict guidelines re the care and treatment of the joeys. Not all joeys can be released into the wild once they are mature - they are not allowed to be released into the wild unless they are completely rehabilitated and able to fully fend for themselves etc without human assistance etc. there are strict guidelines for all of this (I don't know them all, but the information is publicly available and the organisations are always willing to provide further information if asked)

(Jim I would not question Hen's authority on this topic if I am not mistaken she wrote animal welfare legislation for her state until recently)

I didn't know this, and am not trying to be argumentative. Hen lives in the Australian Capital Territory and I don't know the legislation / guidelines for the Australian Capital Territory and Northern Territory. If Hen wrote animal welfare legislation for ACT then she would, of course, be aware of the restrictions in that Territory.
And I don't know the full legislation for the other states/territories, but I do know that at least WA, SA, Vic, Tas and Qld allow properly licensed wildlife carers to care for and raise joeys, including 'pinkies' (as illustrated by the links provided, and more detailed links if requested)








***edited after Aardvark's response to fix up the italics 'cos I realised I'd stuffed it all up the first time.
No words changed

[Aard Vark]

alice as far as I know it is not leagle for anyone to transport any native animals, birds or reptiles without the propper documentaion.
Easiest example of this is the forms you need to fill out at the pet shop to take you native parrot home. Or the hundred or so for the lisence to keep reptiles. No test or questions to see if you can take care of a reptile just a fee for the lisance

In QLD the fines for many for animal crulity and native hadling laws are extremely stiff. So Hen has it right I don't agree with the laws but we need something to protect the wildlife.
I would how ever love to see Numbats put on the pet list. They do make great house pets they will catch mice and insects re rather afectionate. Much like a cat but without the willfull distruction of cats. With a carefully run breading plan and with the profits of sales going to a release back to the wild program I could see them gaining in number quickly.

[alice]

My understanding is that you have to contact one of the rescue organisations as soon as possible, and take the rescued animal to their care as soon as possible. The NSW legislation that was mentioned in one of the links above stated "fauna must be surrendered to a licensed wildlife rescue and care group as soon as possible and no longer than seven days after encountering the animal."".
Having said that, I don't know the complete legislation for each state - I've only got a general understanding which is supported by the links to various organisations etc, as above. So Qld may very well have different legislation for transport of the injured animals than NSW. However all the organisations in all the states (but I don't know about the territories) encourage members of the public to rescue the animals and then contact the rescue organisations. Because of this I would guess there would be some necessary leeway allowed in each state's legislation for promptly transporting the animals to the relevant organisation.

...Or the hundred or so for the lisence to keep reptiles. No test or questions to see if you can take care of a reptile just a fee for the lisance

My son has a reptile linence under Victorian legislation. He has to keep fairly detailed records of the reptile/s in his care, and has to provide this information to the Victorian Dept of Sustainability each year before they accept his licence renewal. He can't buy or sell reptiles without providing/recording licence details.
But you're right - he didn't have to prove he could take care of the reptile/s!
Although the dept officers can turn up at the door and inspect the reptiles and their living conditions whenever they want, I don't think it's likely to happen unless they think there are suspicious circumstances.

[The Hen]

OK, I will admit I overstepped the mark with home many state and territories will allow for the care of hairless joeys.
The way a decision is meant to be made is after a number of conclusions are made.

1. You find an injured/ orphaned joey that had no hair. Can it survive without it's mother?
If answer = no then more questions are asked.

Can the animal be released after veterinarian attention?

If the answer is no then do you have some where with enough space and no predators?

If the answer is no once more, then you euthanase.

I seriously doubt that these questions where asked in the first place. This will be just yet one more case of people fucking up a life whilst 'trying' to do the right thing.

Alice, I wrote and adopted the Welfare laws for the ACT and was the welfare officer for a decade. I oversaw a number of welfare initiatives and it is because of the policies I introduced that docking of dogs tails is now illegal.

[The Hen]

licensing conditions will prevent people in ACT, SA, Tas, Victoria and NSW from doing what this woman has down without having ensured that there is an appropriate place to care for the animal once raised.

I seriously doubt this woman has an appropriate place for this poor Joey to go to once it is old enough to not need her to feed it.

I will happily start investigations with the Victorian Government to find this out as I am sick to death of bleeding hearts fucking around with animals that shouldn't be in their care. The photos with this story will back the fact that she has done nothing to ensure this Roo doesn't imprint with humans.

[The Hen]

By the way Alice, you are missing an important part from all those links .... the established keeping and caring conditions, and whether the carer is authorized to do what she is doing.

Which from the look of the photos she is desensitizing the kangaroo from interaction with humans, which is the number one biggest no-no for a "carer" .

Judging from the photos shown, she has breached just about every single requirement for ensuring that the Roos doesn't imprint with humans. ( Though I am SURE she is well meaning.)

[Crackpot]

To be fair those pictures are clearly photo ops and show nothing of the environment the joey is being brought up in or how it is being raised.

[The Hen]

Bullshit.

It is sucking her chin.

This is not an appropriate way of raising an orphaned roo if you DO NOT Want to make it into a pet.

Still, fuck it. I'll call in contacts and get an investigation going on Monday.

[Aard Vark]

I have a problem with the way there are to many laws that controdict each other on this . What would be the reaction if a bleeding heart saw you twisting the neck of a
joie that will not survive out of the pouch?

But to handle an animal that will need to be released back to the wild like this, isn't helping at all. To be honest with the numbers of Grays in Vic would of been better to see it off.

As I said before I have seen families that take in joies and they are not likt that.

[alice]

The article that began this thread stated that the woman was a wildlife carer, so I'm assuming she's authorised. One or two of the other links (or maybe a couple that I didn't include here) showed the carers treating the hairless joey the same way = ie, handling them in the same manner.
My understanding of rehabiliutation is that after an injured animal is better, or I presume after a baby animal is weaned etc, they then begin rehabilitation to slowly remove the human element of care and slowly reintroduce the animal into the wild. Having said that, my experience in these matters comes from articles I've read, documentaries I've watched, and chats with people at wildlife parks etc, so I'm absolutely not trying to portray myself as an expert.

I only knew a little something about the care of the furless joeys because my youngest son, many years ago, expressed an interest in looking after injured wildlife and began making enquiries on the matter. Frankly, I didn't feel we had the time or resources available to take on any other animals and was most relieved when he failed the first criteria - because we had dogs and a cat at the time - and the second criteria - he was too young. However it was during that time that he/we researched quite a bit into what would be involved if he did want to take on this noble enterprise at a later date. I wanted him to understand the total commitment - time and cost etc - involved in this activity. I don't mean to sound selfish, but my feeling was that if he wanted to do this, it was something he could do after he left home, when I wouldn't be roped into helping him. Since that time my son has realised it's too much commitment for him, and I haven't kept up with any of the requirements and legislation etc.

So i only did a bit of quick research after reading your comments in this thread because I was curious if it had changed since then.

Alice, I wrote and adopted the Welfare laws for the ACT and was the welfare officer for a decade. I oversaw a number of welfare initiatives and it is because of the policies I introduced that docking of dogs tails is now illegal.

How long ago was that? I used to have a rottweiler/blue heeler cross approximately 20 years ago. It was a pup that had been badly treated, including someone trying to dock it's tail and failing. The dog had a bit of a deformed tail as a result. My husband at the time wanted to go to the vet and get it docked properly because "all' rotties "had" to have docked tails. I was arguing against it because I couldn't understand why anyone would do that - the only answers I was getting was so the tail didn't 'get in the way' or 'knock things over', and 'because the breed looks silly with a tail'. Luckily the local vet was against the practice and talked my husband out of it when he tried to ignore me and get it done anyway. So our dog kept its slightly deformed but still functioning tail.
Anyway, that was something like 20 years ago, and I was living in SA at the time. I vaguely remember there was quite a debate about tail docking some time after that, but can't remember when it became illegal.
But I am grateful for your contribution to the outlawing of that horrible, horrible practice.

In fact, if you were championing the rights of animals then I sincerely applaud you for your efforts -
I find it sickening the things people do to animals. I don't understand the mentality of people who do cruel and awful things intentionally to animals, and I wish there were tougher laws to help stop them. Or that we were allowed to treat them the same.

[The Hen]

Removed as I should realize to leave bleeding hearts well enough alone.

[The Hen]

Have I met many "licensed carers" that didn't have a fucking clue but were able to get a licnece?

Too bloody right. Far too many to mention. It happens in many States and Territories which is why many licences will specifically prevent the care of pinkies.

I am willing to bet this is another case simply by the way she is handling the animal.

[The Hen]

So i only did a bit of quick research after reading your comments in this thread because I was curious if it had changed since then.

Alice, I wrote and adopted the Welfare laws for the ACT and was the welfare officer for a decade. I oversaw a number of welfare initiatives and it is because of the policies I introduced that docking of dogs tails is now illegal.

How long ago was that? .

From memory, without my files, ACT banned tail docking in 1999-2000. The rest of Australia followed shortly after.

I am no longer in Welfare. But I keep my hand in on a couple of projects. I was so close to getting a ban on caged hens in the ACT its wasn't funny. I only need one more Minister to feel "brave" and we could have banned that as a legitimate husbandry practice as well.

Oh well. can't win them all.

[alice]

I am no longer in Welfare. But I keep my hand in on a couple of projects. I was so close to getting a ban on caged hens in the ACT its wasn't funny. I only need one more Minister to feel "brave" and we could have banned that as a legitimate husbandry practice as well.

keep up the good work

We have our own chooks, and they reside in a chook 5-star motel - so egg consumption in our household depends on whether the little dears want to lay or not
But before we had them I used to try to get the most 'humane' eggs. I was buying eggs that were labelled 'free range' or some such, but then read an article somewhere that said some of the 'free range' methods weren't much better than the battery hens. Then I was buying RSPCA approved eggs - I paid a little more but it was the only way, as a consumer, of feeling that I was 'doing something'.

But to handle an animal that will need to be released back to the wild like this, isn't helping at all. To be honest with the numbers of Grays in Vic would of been better to see it off.

Just a thought - I wonder if they could use these people-reared roos for roo farming? Roo meat is supposed to be extremely lean and very good for you. It would have to be more humane than the current method?

[Lord Jim]

I'll call in contacts and get an investigation going on Monday.

I think that's an excellent idea Hen....

This human interest story already has the appealing defenseless victim, and the warm-hearted hero who came to his rescue....

All that's missing is the cold-hearted villain....



Hen takes her ecologically correct transportation to work to file her report.

With a little luck, maybe you can even get an order to have the plucky little guy euthanized...

I'm sure the press would love that...

Should make you right popular with the animal loving public....

ETA:

Yes, I can just see it...

The tabloids might even give you a nickname like "Henny The Joey Slayer"...

ABC might ring you up for an interview to ask you questions like, "Ms. Hen, just what do you believe should be the proper punishment for those who nurse injured defenseless creatures back to health?"

No doubt about it;

This is definitely the sort of cause I would want to become associated with....a real PR bonanza.....