You want blood, you can't have it...

[Gob]

The Australian Red Cross Blood Service has just one day's supply of O negative blood left in NSW, the organisation says.

A sudden downturn in people donating blood has severely depleted blood stocks, Blood Service manager Garry Wolfe said on Monday.

While the organisation aims to have six days' supply available, it currently has less than two days' supply nationally and less in NSW.

"Our O negative blood stocks are at worrying levels," Mr Wolfe said.

"With the cold and flu season almost upon us and many regular donors going away for the Queen's birthday long weekend in June, we are very concerned."

O negative is known as the universal blood type because it can be used in an emergency to save lives when the patient's blood type is unknown.

Members of the public are being asked to donate blood, regardless of their blood type.

To donate, contact the Australian Red Cross Blood Service on 13 14 95.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-o-negativ ... z1NmtfHozg

Well I'm O rh- (the universal donor.) I have a gold badge card for 50 + donations in the UK, and I'm keen to give.

But they won't take it, so fuck'em...

Why?

Although the number of cases of vCJD (the human form of 'mad cow disease' or bovine spongiform encephalopathy) in the United Kingdom is declining, in the absence of a screening test, the full extent of exposure is not known.

Since 2004, there have been a small number of reported cases of patients in the United Kingdom (UK) diagnosed with vCJD who have been infected through blood transfusion.

Based on this information, and in the absence of a reliable screening test for vCJD in blood, the Australian Red Cross Blood Service has implemented policies to reduce the risk of vCJD transmission through blood transfusion in Australia. Currently we exclude people from donating who:

Have resided in the UK between 1980 and 1996 for a total (cumulative) time of 6 months or more,

or

Have received blood transfusions in the UK since 1 January 1980.

Unfortunately, because of the extensive time period covered by the deferral and the possibility of unknowing exposure to beef or beef products, it is not possible to exempt vegetarians who have resided in the UK for a cumulative period of six months or more during the risk years.

[Scooter]

This:

Unfortunately, because of the extensive time period covered by the deferral and the possibility of unknowing exposure to beef or beef products, it is not possible to exempt vegetarians who have resided in the UK for a cumulative period of six months or more during the risk years.

is particularly stupid. If the period to be concerned about is between 1980 and 1996, and the person was a vegetarian at all times during that period while residing in the UK, then they aren't at risk. "Unknowing exposure to beef or beef products"? What, someone shoved a burger down their throat while they slept?

This is one of those examples of using risk groups to exclude potential donors, rather than risk behaviours, just because it's easier and regardless of the loss of perfectly good donors.

[Rick]

Prion disease is caused by an aberrant protein. Eating vegetables that have been cooked on the same surface as affected beef could still be suspect.

Areas that were used to raise Cervids for paid hunts affected animals after the original herd was destroyed and the area torched.

I'm talking about Chronic Wasting Disease (BSE equivalent in Cervids) and not Black Tongue...

[Scooter]

And where would they be cooking vegetables on the same surface as beef without cleaning it first? A prison?

[Rick]

Obviously you didn't read the part about fire.

The point being if fire won't "disinfect"...

[oldr_n_wsr]

And where would they be cooking vegetables on the same surface as beef without cleaning it first? A prison?

At the local chinese take-out.

[Scooter]

Obviously you didn't read the part about fire.

The point being if fire won't "disinfect"...

Because heat doesn't denature all proteins, but bleaches and other cleaning compounds, commonly used in commercial kitchens, will do the job.

[SisterMaryFellatio]

Me too Gob...gave blood for years in the Uk and have given a fair few times here, had to have a years break because of a tattoo i got and then wallop.....sorry no you can't give anymore cos you might have mad cow disease!!


What a load of bollox.....i would have already infected hundreds if that was the case with donations i have already made!



As someone who has had a blood transfusion I would love to give back again and again.

[Rick]

Bleaches disinfect by breaking down the cellular structure of pathogens turning them into goo, destroying them.

Bleach (the Chlorine component in particular) does not work well on spore formers, certain viruses, and of course prions that actually have no living tissue in them at all.

They are a protein in which the molecular structure is a mirror image (so to speak) of a "proper" protein.

As these proteins come in contact with each other the aberrant form changes the molecular structure of the "proper" form so it too becomes aberrant.

It only takes one and they never tire...

[Scooter]

Infectious particles possessing nucleic acid are dependent upon it to direct their continued replication. Prions, however, are infectious by their effect on normal versions of the protein. Sterilizing prions therefore involves the denaturation of the protein to a state where the molecule is no longer able to induce the abnormal folding of normal proteins. Prions are generally quite resistant to proteases, heat, radiation, and formalin treatments, although their infectivity can be reduced by such treatments. Effective prion decontamination relies upon protein hydrolysis or reduction or destruction of protein tertiary structure. Examples include bleach, caustic soda, and strong acidic detergents such as LpH.

link

[Rick]

I stand abashed.

However bleach in a clinical setting is one thing it is entirely different in a commercial food service environment.

Not only is it hard to get minimum wage workers to care anything about sanitation it is also impractical to bleach every surface in that establishment. Some surfaces do not take kindly to being bleached.

You can hang yer hat on this process if you wish, evidently those that take blood don't.

I can't say I blame them, sorry Gob...

[Scooter]

It's "impractical" to disinfect every surface that has come into contact with meat??? Then I'm sorry, patrons of that restaurant are going be getting sick with a lot more immediate and obvious diseases than vCJD which will tell them that the cleaning job they are doing is inadequate.

"Those that take blood" also say that a woman who gets fucked both front and back without a condom by a different man every week is a suitable donor, while a man who has done nothing but give a hand job to another guy over 30 years ago is not, so I'm sorry if I don't rely on "those that take blood" as knowing WTF they are doing when they come up with these guidelines.

[Rick]

OK I'll play along.

Log 4 reduction is not eradication is it (what one can expect with sodium hypochlorite)? One prion can ostensibly be a death sentence.

You may want to check the efficacy of sodium hypochlorite in the presence of grease, so unless the chef breaks everything down after each individual order, wash with soap and water, then bleach every surface (including those that are designed for this process--most cooking surfaces) there will be a chance one or more of those little buggers getting through.

Chlorine has a propensity to gas off so unless that chef cracks the proverbial whip at those workers that wash dishes and wipe down all those surfaces to continually check solution strength there's always a chance some of those little buggers could get through.

I'll stop there.

Now I'm sure if Gob (or any other vegetarian) could show that everywhere they ate since the BSE out break had absolutely no incidences (even rumored) of food borne illness out breaks they might actually give him consideration.

Of course he would proly have to provide "colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one"

Short of that...

[Scooter]

Fine, I'll play along too then.

If bleach is seen as an effective cleaning agent in medical environments to deal with spills of tissue KNOWN to be contaminated with vCJD-inducing prions, then you are picking nits.

And as to process, all that is required is that cooking utensils, etc. that are used for meat are not used for other items prior to cleaning, which is SOP in any case in order to avoid cross-contamination with a variety of meat-borne pathogens.

[Rick]

OK Scoot you win.

You need to rush right down to OZ and tell them they're idiots.

If everyone was as smart as you disease as we know it would be eradicated.

Bravo...

[Scooter]

I take an interest in this stuff because I am involved in dealing with these issues in the blood system here at home - I have sat across the table from folks at Canadian Blood Services for many fruitless meetings trying to get them to change the entire way they look at risk that avoids both the carelessness and subsequent kneejerk overreactions of the past in order to protect people in the future. Because the issue is no longer HIV, for which we can test, or even vCJD, which we have learned how to eradicate at the source. The issue is the next unidentified pathogen that infects the blood and that has an incubation period of 10 or 20 years or longer before it manifests symptoms of disease. And so long as blood donation systems continue to operate using a paradigm of risk groups, rather than risk behaviours, that as yet unidentified pathogen WILL contaminate the blood supply and cause disease. It is only a matter of time.

So the Australian Red Cross can go on refusing vegetarian donors who have been to the UK for a cumulative stay greater than 6 months while they continue to allow donations from people who were only there for days and yet ate beef from a herd known to contain cattle infected with BSE. Is that the kind of screening procedure you are comfortable with?

[Rick]

Since 2004, there have been a small number of reported cases of patients in the United Kingdom (UK) diagnosed with vCJD who have been infected through blood transfusion.

If they ere they have decided so on the side of caution.

I don't know that that is knee jerk, I can see your point concerning veggies and I again submit a show that there have been no illness outbreaks of any sort from the places the veggies have visited would probably be met with favorable review.

I submit that it would take some effort on the part of the donor.

As has been shown throughout history prophylaxis is not always a reasonable means of prevention if not followed to the letter.

Having been on the regulatory end of the food service industry here in the US I can tell you unequivocally that absolute adherence to prophylactic measures is exceedingly rare to the point of nonexistence. That and the quotation above in the absence of a screening measure, in MY estimation, lends credence to the concerns in OZ.

You certainly have had more experience with blood than I have, you also know one scare can decimate a supply as well as scare off all but the most ardent donors.

What would be reasonable risk to you?

Just so I don't break with tradition...

[Scooter]

So what was the story of those who had donated vCJD-infected blood? Were they beef eaters or not? Can anyone point to a single case of vCJD that is traceable to a vegetarian?

Reasonable risk to me would be to allow donation by those who had not engaged in any of the risk behaviours associated with the disease. Sojourn in a country where a disease is somewhat more prevalent than in my own is not a "risk behaviour". If that were true, then Western European countries, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc. should not allow anyone who has spent time in the United States to donate blood, because HIV is six or seven times more prevalent in the U.S. than it is in those countries.

Blood donors were scared off during the initial HIV scare because the responsible authorities completely bungled the situation. They continued to allow blood they knew was probably infected to enter the system while giving false reassurance to those outside the then identified "risk groups" that they had nothing to worry about. They refused, then and largely still now, to approach the security of the blood supply based on risk behaviours, and so we are all waiting for the next epidemic to hit while blood agencies focus on screening out someone who gave a handjob in exchange for cash.

[loCAtek]

Actually, the screening is all voluntarily provided, that is: if you think, or better yet; if you know you don't have HIV, then don't tell them of that glancing encounter you might have had. I'm aware the questionnaire changes all the time, but never have I had to have a lie detector test taken in order to donate. Which means my glancing encounter was getting a home ear piercing from a sewing needle, which I just 'forgot', when I later donated at the Red Cross. It's possible, perfectly healthy, homosexuals (like lesbians) donate all the time. The question is asked, "Have you ever had sex with a man, who has had sex with another man since 1977?"
I've had to forget about that guy too. That was decades ago, and I've been HIV tested by the military and by the Red Cross regularly since then.

They also test every donation very thoroughly, before it is put in the blood supply. So, your example of a promiscuous woman, who has probably contracted HIV from that behavior, may be able to make a blood donation once; where it will be rejected. After that her name and social security number go into a database of those ineligible to donate.


Edited to correct myself: You should know you don't have HIV, if you intend to donate blood. The Red Cross is not a testing facility; they will not use rejected donations, but you will not be notified, unless you try to donate again.

[oldr_n_wsr]

take an interest in this stuff because I am involved in dealing with these issues in the blood system here at home - I have sat across the table from folks at Canadian Blood Services for many fruitless meetings trying to get them to change the entire way they look at risk that avoids both the carelessness and subsequent kneejerk overreactions of the past in order to protect people in the future.

I was in Toronto in 2008 and we were in some chain type resturant. I ordered a cheese burger medium rare. I was told I could only get one well done or very well done. Something about solminela and the law.