Inequality and divergence

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rubato
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Inequality and divergence

Post by rubato »

This shows us both a picture of the present and what the momentum of change is. What I would like to ask is; " if you think there is nothing wrong with the current level of inequality in income would you still think that was true when this trend continues? In other words, is there any level of economic inequality which you would find objectionable?"

______________________________________________-
http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/cgi-bin/facts.php

http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/cgi-bin/fact1.php

One of Twenty Facts About U.S. Inequality that Everyone Should Know

Wage Inequality

Over the last 30 years, wage inequality in the United States has increased substantially, with the overall level of inequality now approaching the extreme level that prevailed prior to the Great Depression. This general characterization of the inequality trend oversimplifies, though, the actual pattern of change: The chart below shows that the trend at the top of the income distribution (the “upper tail”) is not exactly the same as the trend at the bottom of the distribution (the “lower tail”). “Lower-tail” inequality is measured here by taking the ratio of wages at the middle of the income distribution (i.e., the 50th percentile) to those near the bottom of the distribution (i.e., the 10th percentile); “upper-tail” inequality is measured by taking the ratio of wages near the top of the distribution (i.e., the 90th percentile) to those at the middle of the distribution (i.e., the 50th percentile of workers). We find that lower-tail inequality rose sharply in the 1980s and contracted somewhat thereafter, while upper-tail inequality has increased steadily since 1980.

Image

Source: Economic Policy Institute. 2011. “Upper Tail” inequality growing steadily: Men's wage inequality, 1973-2009. Washington, D.C.: Economic Policy Institute. May 11, 2011. <http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/charts/view/192>.
_____________________________________________


yrs,
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by rubato »

As of 1995 when equalised for specialty, years of experience, and hours worked male and female physicians were paid exactly the same amount. But, because male physicians worked a lot longer hours their net was significantly higher, and the fact that they did not take time out of their careers to have children also gave them more years of experience. Data in the chart below does not take those things into account so perhaps we have reached the correct equilibrium point overall for male-female wages.

After all having children is a personal good, like wanting to be an olympic athlete, and the fact that people have to trade off one desire for another is only fair. Eric Heiden took time off to be an Olympic skating champion and later a cyclist so that by 40 he was not as advanced in his career as someone who went to Medical School at 22 and deserved to make less than they did.

Maybe the 'correct' ratio should be 90% or 86% but I don't find the 80% number shocking or indicative of unfairness overall.


____________________________________________
http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/cgi-bin/fact5.php


One of Twenty Facts About U.S. Inequality that Everyone Should Know

Gender Pay Gaps

Throughout much of the 20th century, the average woman earned about 60% of what the average man earned. Starting in the late 1970s, there was a substantial increase in women’s relative earnings, with women coming to earn about 80% of what men earned. This historic rise plateaued in 2005 and, since then, the pay gap has remained roughly unchanged.

Women's earnings as a percent of men's (full-time wage and salary workers, annual averages)
Image

Source: U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics. 2010. Highlights of Women’s Earnings in 2009. Report 1017. See http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2009.pdf.
_______________________________________________

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by Sue U »

And in a related story, Rich richer, everyone else fucked:
One percent holds 39 percent of global wealth
By Agence France-Presse
Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 -- 6:28 pm

WASHINGTON — Around one percent of households have 39 percent of the globe's wealth according to a study published Tuesday, pointing to increased inequalities in the wake of the global downturn.

The number of millionaire households across the globe increased 12 percent in 2010, according to The Boston Consulting Group report, increasing millionaires' share of wealth from 37 percent in 2009.

Despite being at the epicenter of the global financial meltdown, the United States had by far the most millionaires last year, with 5,220 millionaire households, and increase of 1.3 percent from the previous year.

Japan was second with 1,530 and China third with 1,110.

But it is emerging markets in Asia that can expect to see the biggest growth, increasing their share of wealth by 2.9 percentage points in 2010.

Tiny Asian economic powerhouse Singapore boosted the highest number of households with more than a million dollars under management.

Over 15 percent of households in the city state have over a million dollars in assets under management, well ahead of the Switzerland and the oil-rich Arabian Gulf states.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/31/o ... al-wealth/
GAH!

dgs49
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by dgs49 »

I admonish myself for responding to a person who generally deserves no response, but...

Income inequality is an issue to be considered when there is a situation like what existed in Great Britain before the Great War. The aristocracy was entrenched, both legally and practically, it was undeserving, and the economy was largely a "zero-sum" proposition - meaning that the wealth that was taken up or consumed by the weathy was necessarily taken from, and not available to the peasant class.

The solution was and is, the rise of the middle class, mainly through entrepreneurship and education.

Without violent revolution, there is little to be done about reducing the piece of the pie taken by the entrenched interests, but enlightened monetary policies, healthy trade, and reasonable levels of regulation and taxation can permit the peasants to gradually enter the middle class (and the truly Idle Rich will gradually fade away as their fortunes are depleted by more generations of worthless sots).

In this country, the landed aristocracy has never been a significant portion of the population, so the "problem" of one entrenched segment of society gobbling up all the Wealth has not been a problem. We had what we called "Robber Barons" who amassed great wealth for themselves and lived like the English aristocracy, but ironically, they created work and wealth for the American counterpart to the peasant class, and by a combination of technological and social/legal initiatives (including the NLRA), we have never had the problem described above.

The proof of this is that we are constantly surrounded by people of humble origins who, through hard work, intelligent risk-taking, education, and luck are able to rise to positions of great power and wealth. Go through just about any neighborhood of million dollar homes in the U.S., and you will find a significant number of people who, for example, were the first ones in their families to graduate from college. Or maybe their father was a mill worker or a coal miner or a janitor.

This trend hasn't slowed down a bit over the past 75 years; it goes on apace.

But people with a socialist bent (like our friend rubato), like to think that wealth (or high income) is passed out to people by random chance, and the people who are at the bottom of the economic ladder are just as entitled to wealth (and income) as those at the top. Furthermore, they like to think that people are still entrenched in the Class of their parents, with no real hope of economic salvation. Predictably, since they consider themselves to be intellectually superior to everyone else, they like to go through economic mastubation excercises, where they "prove" this to be the case with "hard evidence."

One of the most favored of these economic masturbation exercises is the "quintile-over-time" game. They take the average income for people at various income levels over time. They take those calculations and point out that the difference between the average income level of the bottom 20% and the top 20% (any percentage is fine - the conclusion will be the same) in one year was "X TIMES GREATER than it was Y years ago!!!"

This is as predictable and unremarkable as it is true.

And it means absolutely nothing.

Because the PEOPLE who constituted the bottom 20% Y years ago are not the same people who constitute the bottom 20% Y years later. And the same is true for the top Y percent. Indeed, MOST of the people who were in the bottom quintile in Y2K are no longer in the bottom quintile, because their incomes have risen both absolutely and relatively. OTOH, most of the people in the top quintile are the same people years later, but a significant number of them have fallen to lower levels, either because the high income was based on bonuses or other short-term income bumps, they have retired, they have lost jobs or thier businesses have failed, they have not fully recovered their incomes.

For the numbers to have any meaning at all (and it wouldn't be terribly significant in any event), the researchers would have to track the PEOPLE from one time period to the next, and see how those people are doing income-wise. But that would show a whole different picture - one that does not support the socialist agenda of confiscating greater shares of the income of high earners in order to distribute it, in cash or in kind, to those who earn less.

And what can one say of the groups who remain at the same income levels over time? They are continuing to make the same economic and life choices that perpetuate their relative level of prosperity. But a successful, innovative investor or entrepreneur today can have a significantly (and relatively) greater level of income than s/he could have had 50 years ago. Which is why "income disparity" always increases over time. And by rubato's logic, this is a bad thing - something calling for government intervention.

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by quaddriver »

I normally would not respond, or even read carefully one of these threads, but Dave points out something and glosses over our local example:

By his own admission, rube was a poor migrant farm worker imported from ethiopia to california (yinz got the short end of that stick) who apparently worked his way up and married well. As he has also been fond of pointing out, he and his wife are very rich and have the excess to prove it - making his posts a clear cut example of biting the hand that feeds you. OR at least resenting it.

dgs49
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by dgs49 »

And another thing, "Is there any level of economic inequality which you would find objectionable?"

The question is ridiculous. It only makes sense if wealth is a fixed commodity, and one person's having wealth prevents everyone else from accumulating their own. And this is plainly not the case. People create wealth all the time when they make things or improve things that others have made. There is no limit.

As long as the ability of the less-well-off to accumulate wealth is not systemically curtailed, then income inequality is nothing more than an observation, with no public policy implications whatsoever.

Clearly, the greatest impediments to wealth-building among America's bottom rung are teachers' unions and irresponsible childbearing. Both of which are mainly the responsibility of the Democratic Party (and NOT George W. Bush).

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by dales »

America's Middle Class Is Disappearing

Jeffrey Stibel, Harvard Business Review | May 31, 2011, 11:32 AM | 974 | 2

Jeffrey Stibel
Jeffrey Stibel is chairman and CEO of Dun & Bradstreet Credibility Corp.


The US economy today borders on schizophrenic. To be sure, we are seeing signs of positive momentum. The last three months have delivered almost 250,000 new jobs per month on average. Great news, but at the same time, unemployment is growing and now exceeds nine percent. Both consumer confidence and small business confidence is higher than where they were last year. But confidence has been falling rapidly for the past few months.

Were Charles Dickens to show up as a commentator on the evening news, he would have a ready vocabulary to describe our current economic situation: This recovery is very much A Tale of Two Cities. After years of record low interest rates, multiple stimulus packages, and the expansion of tax cuts and credits, we are in the midst of a very real recovery, but it is a recovery characterized by asymmetry. Banks and major corporations are flush with capital — large businesses are recording record profits — but job growth is tepid, unemployment remains high and small businesses are struggling.

At first glance, the combination of record corporate profits alongside anemic job growth seems contrary, but the two are directly connected. The primary reason corporate profits are at record highs is that large companies learned to be lean and highly productive during the worst years of the recession. The profits generated through a reduced but more productive headcount has induced many large companies to continue this lean approach even as we emerge from recession. The result: record profits despite weak revenue growth, which leads to a lack of hiring.

The job growth problem is even more nuanced than that. It turns out that the hiring we are seeing is at the extreme ends of the spectrum. To ensure strong profits, corporations are cutting out the middle layers of management — the middle-class. In their place, they are hiring at the very low end and promoting at the high end. Senior management compensation is up nearly 25% this year ($9M for the average S&P 500 CEO), to levels higher than in pre-recession days, according to executive compensation research firm Equilar.

On the other side, we have job growth coming in at the bottom of the pyramid, mostly minimum wage and temporary positions. Take last month's job creation, for example. Out of the 260,000 jobs created in April, a whopping 60,000 jobs came from one company: McDonald's. There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers for a living, but it will not pull us out of a recession.

Meanwhile, middle-class jobs are declining at an alarming rate. Middle income jobs have been falling rapidly for some time and now represent well less than half of all jobs in the US. New numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics suggest that these middle income jobs have been replaced by low-income jobs. This has left 17 million college-educated Americans with jobs well below their educational levels. If the middle-class are filling the jobs available for the less educated, then the poorest Americans will largely be left jobless. The question we need to start asking is not "how do we add jobs to the economy?"; rather, it is "how do we create middle-class jobs to rebuild our economy?"

Without middle-class jobs, our society will enter into a "Stagnant Age" of two classes: rich and poor. And with two-thirds of our GDP coming from consumer spending — and most of that coming from the middle-class — we will be left with a shrinking economy.

This post originally appeared at Harvard Business Review.



Read more: http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2011/05/america ... z1OF3EO7i5

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by rubato »

Well.

This is an accurate picture of where we are now:

Image

This chart takes the entire population and divides it into groups of equal size. Each group is 5% of the total population. The height of the bar is the total income for all people in that group.

As someone who looks at charts;graphs;tables of all sorts of data I will make two points. First "zero" is a hard limit for the bottom-most groups. Second this is taxable income so that the group on the far right can make a multiple of the height of the bar you see there. Locally our non-taxable income in 2011 is $88,400.00; 2x 401ks maxed out, + 2x employer matches, + deferred income.

According to the Republican party going into debt by $131billion per year (in 2004) to give to that impoverished group on the right is the highest and best use of public policy ....
WOW! These are the tax cuts on the rich which the Republicans won't allow to expire.

Their reasoning is that the group on the far right will be so discouraged if you cut their incomes, they will stop working.


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dgs49
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by dgs49 »

And again, we have the idiocy of ASSUMING that if the higher tax rates had remained, there would have been no change in the economic activity of those in the top brackets. No difference in the choices they made.

It's a simple way of looking at things, and it appeals to simpletons.

Ironically, the chart he so proudly brings out proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that the people at the top are already paying federal income taxes out of all proportion to their numbers in the population. Indeed, the logical question coming out of that graph is, what can be done to get the bottom 60% to start paying THEIR FAIR SHARE? I see a graphic illustration of freeloading on an unimaginable scale.

rubato
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by rubato »

Bill Clinton raised taxes on the top group and all income quintile rose (after adjusting for inflation).

So we have done both experiments.

Raise taxes on the rich = incomes go up, GDP increases, poverty goes down, largest economic expansion in 50 years, government runs a surplus.

Borrow to cut taxes on the rich = incomes flat or negative for 10 years, worst economic collapse in 80 years, recession, poverty goes up, government runs a huge debt.


With this outcome the Republicans want to continue the second experiment. How can they get anyone making less than $150,000/ yr stupid enough to vote for them?

yrs,
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by rubato »

dgs49 wrote:"... what can be done to get the bottom 60% to start paying THEIR FAIR SHARE? I see a graphic illustration of freeloading on an unimaginable scale.

We pay over $50,000 yr in federal income taxes and last year had $75,000 in untaxed income (we raised our deferred income for this year). According to you this is "UNFAIR" and we should pay less and people making $25,000 yr or $50,000 yr (total) should pay more.

I disagree.

When you raise our taxes the numbers in the columns change but the quality of our lives does not. We take the vacations we would have anyway, we buy the same wine, we go out to dinner just as often. And we are a small fraction of the population and represent a small fraction of consumer spending; we can only eat so many meals a day! When you increase taxes on people making $50,000/yr or less, (or cut their pay like BushCo policies did) one half of the households in the country, you increase their misery measureably. And being a large group you cut their consumer spending a lot.

Going back to the Clinton-era income tax rates would cost us too little to care about.

People who are working full-time jobs are paying their way with their lives; 2080 hours per year they are working at a productive occupation which increases the wealth of us all. And they actually pay much higher rates of excise and SS taxes than we do. The excise tax on 'two-buck Chuck' is the same as the tax on a bottle of Rombauer or Seghesio

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by Lord Jim »

The Clinton defense of higher taxes rests largely on a cursory review of the economic history of the 1990s. Whatever the theoretical debates, the proof, as they say, is in the pudding: President Clinton raisedtaxes, yet the economy grew, and grew smartly in the latter half of the 1990s. Economists have occasionally been accused of seeing something work in practice and then proving that it cannot work in theory. However, this is not the case here.

History suggests that the economy performed reasonably well in the years immediately following the tax hike, but history is not causality, and history sometimes needs a more careful examination to tell its story faithfully. Following the tax hike, the economy performed reasonably well, but not as well as one would expect given the conditions at the time. The real economic boom came later in the decade, just when the economy should have slowed as it made the transition from a period of recovery to normal expansion. Further, this acceleration coincided to a remarkable degree with the 1997 tax cut.

Contrasting the period immediately after the tax hike and the period immediately after the tax cut, the evidence strongly suggests that the tax hike likely slowed the economy as traditional theory suggests, and that it was the tax cut that gave the economy renewed vigor--and gave history the real 1990s boom. In other words, the Clinton defense of higher taxes does not hold up.

The Clinton Tax Hike

In 1993, President Clinton ushered through Congress a large package of tax increases, which included the following:[2]

* An increase in the individual income tax rate to 36 percent and a 10 percent surcharge for the highest earners, thereby effectively creating a top rate of 39.6 percent.
* Repeal of the income cap on Medicare taxes. This provision made the 2.9 percent Medicare payroll tax apply to all wage income. Like the Social Security payroll tax base today, the Medicare tax base was capped at a certain level of wage income prior to 1993.
* A 4.3 cent per gallon increase in transportation fuel taxes.
* An increase in the taxable portion of Social Security benefits.
* A permanent extension of the phase-out of personal exemptions and the phase-down of the deduction for itemized expenses.
* Raising the corporate income tax rate to 35 percent.

According to the original Treasury Department estimates, the Clinton tax hike was to raise federal revenues by 0.36 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in its first year and by 0.83 percent of GDP in its fourth year, when all provisions were in effect and timing differences associated with near-term taxpayer behaviors had sorted themselves out. In 1997, the fourth-year effect would be roughly equivalent to an increase in the federal tax burden of about $114 billion.

Background

The economic environment at the time of the tax hike is important in assessing its consequences. In January 1993, the economy was entering its eighth quarter of expansion after the 1990-1991 recession. The recession had been relatively mild by historical standards, with a net drop in output of 1.3 percent. Yet even at the start of 1993, the economy was operating below capacity. Capacity utilization in the nation's factories, mines, and utilities was running at about 81 percent, whereas it had been around 84 percent through much of 1988 and 1989. The unemployment rate in January 1993 was 7.3 percent but had averaged 5.3 percent as recently as 1989. At the time of the tax hikes, the economy was recovering but still far from healthy.

Tax policy aside, much in the context of the 1990s was conducive to prosperity. The end of the Cold War brought a new sense of hope and greater certainty to the global economy. The price of energy was astoundingly low, with oil prices dropping to about $11 per barrel and averaging under $20 per barrel compared to prices above $90 per barrel today. The Federal Reserve had finally succeeded in establishing a significant degree of price stability, with inflation averaging less than 2 percent during the Clinton Administration. And, of course, a tremendous set of new productivity-enhancing technologies involving information technologies and the World Wide Web burst on the scene.

Absent a major negative shock, one should have expected a period of unusually strong growth from 1993 onward as the economy more fully employed its available capital and labor resources. In the four years following the Clinton tax hike (from 1993 through 1996):

* The economy grew at an average annual rate of 3.2 percent in inflation-adjusted terms;
* Employment rose by 11.6 million jobs;[3]
* Average real hourly wages rose a total of five cents per hour;[4] and
* Total market capitalization of the S&P 500 rose 78 percent in inflation-adjusted terms.

These statistics indicate a solid, but not spectacular, performance in the overall economy. Job growth was strong, as one would expect coming out of recession. Real wage growth remained almost non-existent, and the stock market performed well. But the real question is this: Altogether, did the economy perform better, or worse, because of the tax hike? The data from the period do not provide a clear answer.

The year 1997 was a watershed for both tax policy and the economy. By 1997, the economy had entered into a sustained expansion. The unemployment rate was 5.3 percent, a level thought at the time to be roughly consistent with full employment. Similarly, capacity utilization rates hovered around 82.5 percent; again, roughly consistent with full employment of the nation's industrial capacity. With a mature expansion and the economy running at what was believed to be about full capacity, growth would normally be expected to ease back as the economy makes the transition from recovery to normal growth. It was not a moment when one would expect growth to accelerate.

The 1997 Tax Cut: The Economy Unleashed

In 1997, the Republican-led Congress passed a tax-relief and deficit-reduction bill that was resisted but ultimately signed by President Clinton. The 1997 bill:

* Lowered the top capital gains tax rate from 28 percent to 20 percent;
* Created a new $500 child tax credit;
* Established the new Hope and Lifetime Learning tax credits to reduce the after-tax costs of higher education;
* Extended the air transportation excise taxes;
* Phased in an increase in the estate tax exemption from $600,000 to $1 million;
* Established Roth IRAs and increased the income limits for deductible IRAs;
* Established education IRAs;
* Conformed AMT depreciation lives to regular tax lives; and
* Phased in a 15 cent-per-pack increase in the cigarette tax.


According to Treasury's original estimates, the 1997 tax cut was relatively modest, amounting to just 0.11 percent of GDP in its first year and 0.22 percent of GDP by its fourth year. In 1997, the fourth-year effect would be roughly equivalent to a reduction in the overall tax burden of about $30 billion.

Despite its modest size, tax cut advocates had high expectations for the tax cut's effects on the economy because the reduction in the capital gains tax rate was expected to unleash a torrent of entrepreneurial and venture capital activity. They were not disappointed.

In 1995, the first year for which these data are available, just over $8 billion in venture capital was invested.[5] Venture capital is especially critical to a vibrant economy because high-risk/high-return investment permits promising new businesses to blossom, rapidly spreading new technologies and new ideas into the marketplace and across the economy. Such investments, when successful, generate returns to investors that are subject primarily to the tax on capital gains. By 1998, the first full year in which the lower capital gains rates were in effect, venture capital activity reached almost $28 billion, more than a three-fold increase over 1995 levels, and by 1999, it had doubled yet again.

The explosion in venture capital activity cannot be credited entirely to the cut in capital gains tax rates, as the cut fortuitously coincided with technological developments that gave rise to the Internet-based "New Economy." However, the rapid development and application of these new technologies could not have occurred at such a rapid clip absent the enormous investment flows made possible largely by the reduction in the capital gains tax rate. This experience demonstrated yet again the truth of the axiom: The less you tax of something--in this case, venture capital investment--the more you get of it.

Comparing the Periods

The Clinton years present two consecutive periods as experiments of the effects of tax policy. The first period, from 1993 to 1996, began with a significant tax increase as the economy was accelerating out of recession. The second period, from 1997 to 2000, began with a modest tax cut as the economy should have settled into a normal growth period. The economy was decidedly stronger following the tax cut than it was following the tax increase.

Image

The economy averaged 4.2 percent real growth per year from 1997 to 2000--a full percentage point higher than during the expansion following the 1993 tax hike (illustrated in the graph above). Employment increased by another 11.5 million jobs, which is roughly comparable to the job growth in the preceding four-year period. Real wages, however, grew at 6.5 percent, which is much stronger than the 0.8 percent growth of the preceding period (illustrated in the graph below). Finally, total market capitalization of the S&P 500 rose an astounding 95 percent. The period from 1997 to 2000 forms the memory of the booming 1990s, and it followed the passage of tax relief that was originally opposed by President Clinton.

Image

In summary, coming out of a recession into a period when the economy should grow relatively rapidly, President Clinton signed a major tax increase. The average growth rate over his first term was a solid 3.2 percent. In 1997, at a time when the expansion was well along and economic growth should have slowed, Congress passed a modest net tax cut. The economy grew by a full percentage point-per-year faster over his second term than over Clinton's first term.

The evidence is fairly clear: The tax cuts, especially the reduction in the capital gains tax rate, made a major contribution to a strong economy. Given this observation, it seems likely, though admittedly less certain, that the tax increases in 1993, while not derailing the economy as many had forecast at the time, did indeed slow the recovery compared to what the economy could have achieved.

Image
http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... 1990s-boom
ImageImageImage

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by Scooter »

Well, if the Heritage Foundation says so, then I guess it must be true.

You realize, of course, that precisely the same argument can be used to challenge the "success" of welfare reform i.e. that in an economy that was already expanding, the numbers of welfare recipients would have declined in any case.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by Lord Jim »

Well, if the Heritage Foundation says so, then I guess it must be true.
I guess that comment means that you figure the author just made those numbers up...
[1]For a discussion of recent research on the economic effects of tax changes see J.D. Foster, "Tax Hikes, Economic Clouds, and Silver Linings: A Review of Deficits and the Economy," Heritage Foundation Backgrounder No. 2095, February 25, 2008, at http://www.heritage.org/static/reportim ... 96E6A6.pdf.

[2]U.S. Department of the Treasury, Office of Tax Analysis, "Revenue Effects of Major Tax Bills," September 2006.

[3]Bureau of Labor Statistics, total non-farm payroll, payroll survey.

[4]Bureau of Labor Statistics, average hourly earnings, non-supervisory employees.

[5]PriceWaterhouseCoopers, National Venture Capital Association "MoneyTree" Report, at www.pwcmoneytree.com/moneytree/nav.jsp?page=historical.
http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... 1990s-boom
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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by Scooter »

What I mean is that I have seen a lot of theories thrown around on both sides of that debate, and that a comment like this:
With a mature expansion and the economy running at what was believed to be about full capacity, growth would normally be expected to ease back as the economy makes the transition from recovery to normal growth. It was not a moment when one would expect growth to accelerate.
is nothing but an ipse dixit with absolutely no economic theory to back it up. It is reminiscent of claims by Medi when we were discussing the New Deal, that the fact that the economy had tanked so sharply until reaching its nadir in March 1933 meant that it should have been expected to spring back strongly irrespective of any interventions taken by the Roosevelt administration.

The numbers may not lie, but attempting to attribute them to any single intervention is the stuff of idiots.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

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Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by rubato »

The Heritage Foundation have become a clown-show factory for right-wing sound bites. Not taken seriously.


data from US census bureau:


Table H-1. Income Limits for Each Fifth and Top 5 Percent of All Households: 1967 to 2009
(Households as of March of the following year. Income in current and 2009 CPI-U-RS adjusted dollars (29))
Year Upper limit of each fifth (dollars) Lower limit of top 5 percent
Lowest Second Third Fourth
2009 Dollars
..... ..... -5.2268%..... -3.7392%..... -2.6858%..... -1.2889%..... -1.6554% Bush Change = negative, crappy.
2008 ..... 20,633 ..... 38,852..... 62,487 ..... 99,860..... 179,317
2007..... 20,991 ..... 40,448..... 64,138 ..... 103,448 ..... 183,103
2006 ..... 21,314 ..... 40,185 ..... 63,830 ..... 103,226..... 185,119
2005 ..... 21,071 ..... 39,554 ..... 63,352 ..... 100,757..... 182,386
2004..... 20,992..... 39,375..... 62,716..... 99,930 ..... 178,453
2003 ..... 20,974 ..... 39,652..... 63,505 ..... 101,307..... 179,740
2002..... 21,361 ..... 39,795 ..... 63,384 ..... 100,170 ..... 178,844
2001..... 21,771 ..... 40,361 ..... 64,212 ..... 101,163 ..... 182,335

..... ..... 17.7598%..... 13.9423%..... 14.6039%..... 15.5457%..... 18.2582% Clinton Change = positive for all 5/5ths which is why GDP grew under his guidance.
2000 ..... 22,320 ..... 41,103..... 64,985..... 101,844..... 180,879
1999..... 22,059..... 41,090..... 64,859 ..... 101,995..... 182,795
1998 ..... 21,179 ..... 39,960..... 63,522..... 98,561..... 173,728
1997..... 20,520..... 38,909..... 61,294 ..... 95,273 ..... 168,626
1996 ..... 20,103..... 37,789..... 59,904 ..... 92,587 ..... 162,727
1995..... 20,124..... 37,613..... 58,698 ..... 91,012 ..... 157,919
1994 ..... 19,215..... 36,065 ..... 57,390 ..... 89,936 ..... 157,172
1993 ..... 18,954..... 36,074 ..... 56,704 ..... 88,142..... 152,953

You can look it up yourself

Yrs,
rubato

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Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Inequality and divergence

Post by Gob »

President Barack Obama dismissed today's jobs figures as signs the US economy has hit "bumps on the road to recovery".

But Mr Stergios says they are "much more than a hiccough on the road to recovery, they are a sign of deep and abiding uncertainty".

He and others I talk to do not think a second recession - a double dip, in the jargon - is on the way.

But they do think that the fragile recovery looks even more vulnerable.

Economists feel that a full recovery won't happen until 2013. Too late by then for Mr Obama. It will be a year after the presidential election.

Today's presidential visit to a Chrysler plant in Ohio left him looking backwards rather than forwards - justifying the past, not talking about a better future.

There's little he can do. He bailed out the car companies but Congress won't let him spend any more stimulus money, even if he wanted to.

With interest rates at zero and two attempts at printing more money under its belt already, the Fed has no where to go either.


The president today used the analogy of a person being hit by a truck: it takes a long time to recovery.

While most Republicans and many independents applaud him standing back to let the free market do its work, the image is not helpful.

The president makes himself sound like a once enthusiastic and helpful bystander at the scene of a terrible crash, now reduced to standing by a hospital bed, wringing his hands, and hoping for the best


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13650527
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“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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