Freedom of billboard rights.

[loCAtek]

[Andrew D]

Are you seriously suggesting that when a woman is pregnant by a man, what happens during/to that pregnancy is not part of that man's personal life?

And what do you mean "if he kept it about his child"? By saying what? "This would have been my son if some mysterious magic hadn't occurred"?

[Scooter]

I'm saying that publicly accusing the mother of your child of murdering him/her is less about having a relationship with your child and more about exacting some cheap revenge on your ex.

[Andrew D]

My answer to men who would wish to force women to bend to their will in this matter would be to tell them to take issue with nature that created you unable to bear children, or better still keep your pants zipped.

The usual bullshit. As if the woman's not keeping her legs crossed had nothing at all to do with it.

Men forcing women to bend to their will? Oh, please.

The truth of the matter is exactly the opposite. The woman's will dictates everything, and the man's will is irrelevant.

It would be refreshing to see women who favor the current system just to comer right out and say it:

"Yeah, after conception, we have all the rights, and you have nothing but burdens. Don't like it? We do. Tough shit."

At least that would be honest.

[Scooter]

Sure, after conception women face no burdens at all, pregnancy, labour, it's the men who have to deal with all of that.

[loCAtek]

"Yeah, after conception, we have all the rights, and you have nothing but burdens. Don't like it? We do. Tough shit."

At least that would be honest.

Are you serious? In the real world, after conception, some say: women shouldn't have the right to chose what happens in their own bodies, and shouldn't be allowed abortions.

While an unwed man, who has also conceived a child, has NO burdens should he deny parentage and not sign the birth certificate. He gets off Scott free, while the woman is labeled a 'slut' or 'welfare mom'.

Welcome to the real world.

[Joe Guy]

While an unwed man, who has also conceived a child, has NO burdens should he deny parentage and not sign the birth certificate. He gets off Scott free, while the woman is labeled a 'slut' or 'welfare mom'.

Welcome to the real world.

A father is not required to sign a birth certificate. Also, a man's name on a birth certificate is not legal proof that he is the father of the child. A woman can put any man's name she chooses.

More to the point, a father, whether he lives with or accepts that a child is his or not, is fiscally responsible for the child for 18 years. He will not get off "Scott free" if he is reported to Child Support Services.

[Scooter]

I think that's why she said, "some say..." - it was the way things worked once upon a time, and it is an opinion that some people still hold, that if a man choses not to acknowledge his child that it relieves him of any responsibilities towards him/her.

[loCAtek]

Right, therefore no burden, rather than 'nothing but burdens', as suggested.

I know of more than a few men, who have babies and baby's mamas, who feel they hold little to no responsibility towards the child they helped bring into the world.

[Joe Guy]

I know of more than a few men, who have babies and baby's mamas, who feel they hold little to no responsibility towards the child they helped bring into the world.

Those are the Deadbeats. I've heard of men who have quit their jobs so they wouldn't be liable for child support.

They are stupid useless people. Definitely not someone that should be allowed to be a parent.

[loCAtek]

More to the point: they can get out of legal responsibility; whereas the woman can not, as easily.

[Joe Guy]

More to the point: they can get out of legal responsibility; whereas the woman can not, as easily.

I disagree.

Men can't "get out" of legal responsibility easier than women. They will always have the responsibility although they may not act responsibly. The only way they can get around paying court ordered child support is to not earn any money. If someone is so stupid that they intentionally refuse to work just to avoid paying child support, they're punishing themselves more than anyone else.

On the other hand, here in California a woman can give up her child at birth and have no legal liability. Or she can choose to relinquish her parental rights and give up her child for adoption.

So, I believe it's easier for a woman to legally give up responsibility for her child than it is for a man - though emotionally it would be much more difficult than it would be for the typical deadbeat father.

[loCAtek]

Ha Ha ha

[Scooter]

Both parents can give up parental rights, but both parents have to agree. If either parent wants to retain custody, the other cannot unilaterally terminate parental rights i.e. will still have a support obligation to the child.

[Joe Guy]

Ha Ha ha

I don't understand your response.

Both parents can give up parental rights, but both parents have to agree. If either parent wants to retain custody, the other cannot unilaterally terminate parental rights i.e. will still have a support obligation to the child.

A woman can give birth in California (and most other states) and "surrender" a baby within 72 hours without incurring any liability.

A man can't do that.

A woman who has custody of a child that she wants to give up for adoption and is not sure who the father is can relinquish her rights without needing the other parent to agree. Usually the court terminates the unknown father's rights at the same time.

That why I believe that it is easier (legally) for a woman to give up a child than it is for a man.

[Scooter]

A woman can give birth in California (and most other states) and "surrender" a baby within 72 hours without incurring any liability.

A man can't do that.

California's Safe Surrender Baby Law

The Safe Surrender Baby Law allows a parent or person with lawful custody to surrender a baby confidentially, without fear of arrest or prosecution for child abandonment.

Emphasis added.

A woman who has custody of a child that she wants to give up for adoption and is not sure who the father is can relinquish her rights without needing the other parent to agree. Usually the court terminates the unknown father's rights at the same time.

A man who was in a similar circumstance (mother's whereabouts were unknown, etc.) would have the same rights.

The fact that women are far more likely to be giving up their children in both cases (because it is far more common for men than women to take off and leave the remaining parent to take care of the child alone) doesn't mean they have different rights.

[Joe Guy]

The fact that women are far more likely to be giving up their children in both cases (because it is far more common for men than women to take off and leave the remaining parent to take care of the child alone) doesn't mean they have different rights.

I didn't say anything about the mother and father of a child having "different rights."

I said that I believe it is easier for a woman to legally give up her parental rights than it is for a man.

A man who was in a similar circumstance (mother's whereabouts were unknown, etc.) would have the same rights.

That's correct.

[Scooter]

How is it "easier... legally" unless there is a difference in legal rights?

[Joe Guy]

How is it "easier... legally" unless there is a difference in legal rights?

It's easier for a woman to give up her parental rights because she is much more likely to have the baby in her custody for the first 72 hours.

In a situation in which a woman and man are not married and neither are interested in having a child and the woman is about to give birth, the woman has the advantage when it comes to immediate decisions regarding the baby.

She has no more legal rights than the father but she is far more likely to have the ability to act on a decision to give up her parental rights within the first 72 hours than the father would.

[loCAtek]

Wow, no. In the first 72 hours, there is no question she is the mother, while it can take weeks, to determine who is the father, should he come forward for testing.

Legal custody and biological lineage are two different things in most states.