Criminal cures

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Gob
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Criminal cures

Post by Gob »

Criminal or stupidity tax?

I think these wankers should be locked up, you?



by Anna Adams and Meirion Jones
BBC Newsnight

A group of faith healers who claim they have miracle cures for cancer and HIV have been condemned as "irresponsible, even criminal" by a professor of complementary medicine, following a BBC Newsnight investigation.

The group of healers, collectively known as ThetaHealing, claim that their technique - which focuses on thought and prayer - can teach people to use their natural intuition and "brain wave cycle" to "create instantaneous physical and emotional healing."

ThetaHealing have about 600 practitioners in the UK who charge up to £100 per session.

But the healers' claims have been called "criminal" and "not supported by any kind of evidence" by Edzard Ernst, Professor of Complementary Medicine at the University of Exeter, whose unit not only carry out their own studies but also assess those done by other researchers.

Newsnight recorded Warrington-based ThetaHealing practitioner Jenny Johnstone - who charges £30 for a telephone call or £400 for a course - making a number of claims about the technique, including:

"There was a baby I worked on over the telephone and from one day to the next the cancer in his stomach had just disappeared."

Professor Ernst says such claims are "irresponsible, even criminal".

He believes that the ThetaHealing group try to distinguish themselves from the other 20,000 faith healers in the UK by applying a "veneer of science", but says "it's still nonsense".

Repeated clinical trials appear to show that although such faith healing might make people feel better, it does not cure disease. Professor Ernst conducted one such trial which pitched faith healers against actors pretending to be faith healers and found the actors performed better than the healers.

Newsnight tried to speak to Vianna Stibal outside the LSE

One former client of ThetaHealing - who did not wish to be identified - told the BBC that he was "angry and embarrassed" that he had wasted £1,200 on their healing and missed two years of proper medical treatment.

"There was never any suggestion I should go back to my doctor, which is what I needed to do," he told us.

On ThetaHealing's website it says that Vianna Stibal, the American founder of the group, "facilitated her own instant healing from cancer in 1995".

It also says that Ms Stibal conducts seminars around the world to teach people about ThetaHealing, and that she has trained teachers and practitioners who are now working in 14 countries.

Earlier this month, Ms Stibal visited the UK to address a meeting at the London School of Economics (LSE).

At the meeting Ms Stibal responded to a question from an audience member who asked if it was possible for ThetaHealing to make an amputated leg grow back:

"I believe it's possible to grow it back… a lady grew back her ovary... you can grow back a leg. I've seen people grow back," she told attendees.

Some of the 100 people who attended the event told a BBC researcher that they were reassured about the legitimacy of the group by the fact that the meeting was being held at the LSE.

The LSE told Newsnight that ThetaHealing's meeting was a "normal commercial booking".

Further remarks made by Vianna Stibal at the London meeting, whereby she claimed that ThetaHealing could effectively reduce HIV to undetectable levels, have also alarmed Aids charity the Terrence Higgins Trust.

"The fact is we've seen charlatans of this kind all the way through the HIV epidemic," Lisa Power of the Trust told Newsnight. "Those charlatans are more dangerous than ever now that we have effective treatment."

Ms Power worries that some patients could put their lives at risk by delaying taking effective anti-retroviral drugs in favour of pursuing faith healing.

Both Vianna Stibal and Jenny Johnstone refused to answer questions from Newsnight. Ms Johnstone still insists she has healed a baby's stomach cancer, but said there was no point in her trying to prove it because the BBC would not believe her anyway.

Watch Newsnight's investigation in full on Wednesday 22 June 2011 at 10.30pm on BBC Two, and then afterwards on the BBC iPlayer and Newsnight website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/n ... 519657.stm

“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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loCAtek
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by loCAtek »

Theta? Sounds like Scientology.

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Sean
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Sean »

Theta? Sounds like the eighth letter of the Greek alphabet.
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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Rick
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Rick »

Theta Xi was my college fraternity...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Gob
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Gob »

ThetaHealing® is a technique that focuses on thought and prayer. ThetaHealing® teaches how to put to use our natural intuition, relying upon unconditional love of Creator Of All That Is to do the actual “work”. We believe by changing your brain wave cycle to include the “Theta” state, you can actually watch the Creator Of All That Is create instantaneous physical and emotional healing.

Upon learning the technique of ThetaHealing®, you will see that everyone has intuitive abilities that can be used to bring about spontaneous physical and emotional healing. Using this personal process, you will help yourself, as well as your friends and family.

ThetaHealing® is designed by Vianna as a therapeutic self-help guide to develop the ability to change on all levels: physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually using the Creator of all That Is. ThetaHealing® is best known for the Belief and Feeling Work on all four levels; Core, Gene, History, and Soul. With growing scientific evidence that toxic emotion can contribute to disease and the awareness that emotions, feelings and the power of thought have a direct bearing upon our physical health, there is increasing interest in changing how the mind influences the body to create optimum health. Belief and Feeling Work empower people with the ability to remove and replace negative emotions, feelings and thoughts with positive, beneficial ones. ThetaHealing® can be most easily described as an attainable miracle for your life.

ThetaHealing® is also best known for the 7 Planes of Existence; a concept to connect to the Highest Level of Love and Energy of All That Is. Using this concept, the practitioner can achieve the highest clarity and wisdom love.

In 1995 Vianna Stibal a Naturopath, Massage Therapist, and Intuitive Reader at the time, discovered that the way she did Readings could do an instant healing. Vianna, a mother of three young children was diagnosed with cancer that was quickly destroying her right femur. Everything she had tried using conventional and alternative medicine had failed. Then she discovered that the simple technique she used in Readings could heal. Her leg was instantaneously healed. She added this knowledge of ThetaHealing® to her sessions with clients and in the classes she was teaching. Curious to understand why the technique was working, Vianna solicited the help of a physicist and with an electrocephalograph discovered that the simple technique tapped Theta waves. Over many years of practicing the technique, Vianna believes the technique utilizes a Theta wave to achieve an instant healing. Through thousands of clients she discovered not only an amazing way to connect with the creative energy that moves in all things, but that this energy could change instantly Beliefs and Feelings that are linked to sickness.


http://www.thetahealing.com/about-thetahealing.html
(My bold)

Can you believe this shite?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Rick
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Rick »

and Intuitive Reader
While a members of Theta Xi we intuitively looked at the pictures...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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loCAtek
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by loCAtek »


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Rick
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Rick »

Image
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Lord Jim
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Lord Jim »

I'm not sure that it's accurate to call these people "faith healers"...

The verbiage sounds more like New Age hucksterism to me....
ImageImageImage

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Crackpot
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Crackpot »

keld feldspar wrote:Image
not really a faith healer there
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

rubato
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by rubato »

Along with chiropractic, homeopathy, acupuncture (nearly all is fraud), chinese 'herbal' healing,

&c &c &c

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Joe Guy
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Joe Guy »

I make it a habit to not believe anything else a person says if that person says that a person can grow a new leg.

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The Hen
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by The Hen »

Chiropractic treatment has certainly made it easier for me to walk. Theta treatment? I don't think so.
Bah!

Image

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Gob
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Gob »

People have a need to believe.

A common mantra when kids are referred to our service (normally uttered by their frizzy haired, baggy titted, eco-clothes wearing mother) is "we don't believe in Western medicine," (normally followed by; "he's not ill, he's like Russell Crowe in "A beautiful Mind."")

So we give them the low down on psychosis and schizophrenia as we see it, and the need for medication, early and low dose, to help prevent the illness worsening. If they insist on getting their child treated by "somatic therapists," Chinese herbal healers, or prayer, we normally have no option but to allow it, (unless the kid is a risk to himself and/or others.)

Then, a month later, when the kid is chewing the carpets, seeing the devil in his pet dog, and demanding to see the Prime Minister to; "Warn her that the CIA has bugged the whole of Australia with recording devices hidden in small birds", and wanting to martyr his sister so that he can become a saint and save the world, then whose fault is it?

Why ours of course for; "not doing anything about it!"

In case you're wondering, the above scenario is one of our clients, without the slightest bit of exaggeration about him or his mother.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Rick
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Rick »

Crackpot wrote:
keld feldspar wrote:Image
not really a faith healer there
He tried his hand at it...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Gob
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Gob »

Classic; following on from my post above. Hen and I have just been for a brief hobble around the local supermarket. Outside is a kid selling the "Big Issue", I tell him to catch us on the way out as I had no cash on me at that time.

Inside I inform Hen that that kid was a concert pianist, who played to an audience of 2000 at the Sydney Opera House, and was on course to become a professional musician, until he became unwell. The reason he, from a very wealthy and respectable Chinese family, is now on the streets flogging Tramps Monthly is that his mother did everything in her power to undermine us, and to prevent him being medicated.

Her rationale: "He doesn't need medication, it only makes people worse, my love and god will cure him."

Wrong!
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Andrew D
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Andrew D »

With respect to God-centered faith healing, I have never been able to understand this: If God wants us to rely directly on God for healing, rather than relying on modern medicine (and whatever other techniques have been shown to have, in the aggregate, some positive effect), why did God endow us with the intelligence to come up with modern medicine (or those other techniques) in the first place?
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Andrew D
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Andrew D »

Gob wrote:
In 1995 Vianna Stibal a Naturopath, Massage Therapist, and Intuitive Reader at the time, discovered that the way she did Readings could do an instant healing. Vianna, a mother of three young children was diagnosed with cancer that was quickly destroying her right femur. Everything she had tried using conventional and alternative medicine had failed. Then she discovered that the simple technique she used in Readings could heal. Her leg was instantaneously healed.

http://www.thetahealing.com/about-thetahealing.html
(My bold)

Can you believe this shite?
In a way, yes. As I understand the present state of things, there are, from time to time, unexplained ("spontaneous") remissions of cancer. For no apparent reason, a cancer just goes away. Rare, but not unheardof.

So I can see how someone in her situation -- assuming the truth of the remission itself, which, of course, I am in no position to judge and, as far as I can tell, no one else here is either -- could rationally conclude that Theta-whatsit (or whatever one had been doing) caused the remission. That conclusion might well be wrong, and I am inclined to think that it is, but erroneous is not the same as irrational.

I tried X; I did not get any better. I tried Y; I did not get any better. I tried Z; I got better. Therefore, Z is what made me better. Not, obviously, a conclusion that stands up to analysis by syllogistic logic, but not an irrational conclusion either.

(Edited because the phrase "conclude rationally conclude" is obviously garbled.)
Last edited by Andrew D on Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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loCAtek
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by loCAtek »

Well, unscrupulous 'faith' healers try to cash in on their supposed direct line to God.

When real faith-healers don't ask for money. A real faith healer might just tell you to make your peace with God, and accept your fate ...for no charge.

The point is: your relationship with your faith, not your body.

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Sean
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Re: Criminal cures

Post by Sean »

loCAtek wrote:When real faith-healers don't ask for money. A real faith healer might just tell you to make your peace with God, and accept your fate ...for no charge.
Probably because "You're fucked pal, that'll be $200 please" would be closely followed by a punch in the face... :lol:
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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