Criminal cures

[loCAtek]

Good thing no one said that.

[Rick]

ALL faith healers are fakes and frauds.

Those that do so in the name of the Lord even worse...

[Andrew D]

Does that include Jesus? Or are all those stories false?

[Rick]

Does that include Jesus? Or are all those stories false?

Allow me to rephrase, since the completion of the New Testament after the death of the last person that had received the gifts of the Holy Spirit the age of the miraculous was over. Not longer necessitated by the fore mentioned completion.

One accepts and believes or one doesn't but the Bible is complete.

To be sure for me to say God would never provide relief is beyond my domain.

But doing it through someone to prove that miracles exist I think not...

[Andrew D]

So miracles before Jesus, miracles during Jesus, miracles after Jesus, but no miracles any more? Doesn't that strike you as awkwardly convenient?

[Rick]

No...

After rereading yer post I'm not sure that no is the proper response.

I will say I don't have any problem with it...

[dgs49]

(1) for most illnesses and diseases (but certainly not all), the body will figure out a way to cure itself in time, provided you allow it to happen.

(2) most medical treatments focus on symptoms (e.g., high blood pressure, high cholesterol) and not the underlying disease, which may never be treated.

(3) "miraculous" cures take place all the time, in all cultures. One observer will say, "It's a miracle," and another will say, "The cure occurred as a result of a natural process that we do not currently understand." Not much difference, actually.

(4) when you are in pain or other chronic discomfort, you don't particularly care whether or not the doctor (or dentist) is trying to "cure" you, you just want the pain to go away.

(5) there is no end to what people will believe when the person speaking to them exudes confidence and integrity; unfortunately, there are those among us with the ability to excude confidence and integrity who actually possess neither. One could name scores of politicians without straining one's brain.

[Guinevere]

Along with chiropractic, homeopathy, acupuncture (nearly all is fraud), chinese 'herbal' healing,

&c &c &c

That's purely protectionist crap. My chiropractor does more for me -- for the various sports injuries I've incurred -- for less cost and more efficient delivery of service, than any doctor ever has. And my acupuncturist similarly did amazing things for my sleep issues, and for a chronic shoulder problem that the orthopedist completely blew off.

My insurance company now recognizes and either negotiates reduced payments for these services, or allows the cost to be credited towards my deductible. None of them are the answer in and of themselves, but they are certainly tools in the arsenal of any good medical practitioner (like massage, or physical therapy) which should be recognized and utilized when appropriate.

[rubato]

Along with chiropractic, homeopathy, acupuncture (nearly all is fraud), chinese 'herbal' healing,

&c &c &c

That's purely protectionist crap. My chiropractor does more for me -- for the various sports injuries I've incurred -- for less cost and more efficient delivery of service, than any doctor ever has. And my acupuncturist similarly did amazing things for my sleep issues, and for a chronic shoulder problem that the orthopedist completely blew off.

My insurance company now recognizes and either negotiates reduced payments for these services, or allows the cost to be credited towards my deductible. None of them are the answer in and of themselves, but they are certainly tools in the arsenal of any good medical practitioner (like massage, or physical therapy) which should be recognized and utilized when appropriate.

Hey that's great. Just pay for it yourself and don't pass it on to someone else who thinks taxes should only pay for effective cures.

yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

The only people who claim chiropractic care is a "fraud" are people that make money treating back problems. Well, those, and willfully-blind dipshits like Rube.

[Andrew D]

Along with chiropractic, homeopathy, acupuncture (nearly all is fraud), chinese 'herbal' healing,

&c &c &c

That's purely protectionist crap. My chiropractor does more for me -- for the various sports injuries I've incurred -- for less cost and more efficient delivery of service, than any doctor ever has. And my acupuncturist similarly did amazing things for my sleep issues, and for a chronic shoulder problem that the orthopedist completely blew off.

My insurance company now recognizes and either negotiates reduced payments for these services, or allows the cost to be credited towards my deductible. None of them are the answer in and of themselves, but they are certainly tools in the arsenal of any good medical practitioner (like massage, or physical therapy) which should be recognized and utilized when appropriate.

Hey that's great. Just pay for it yourself and don't pass it on to someone else who thinks taxes should only pay for effective cures.

yrs,
rubato

Did you miss the part where Guinevere described the treatments as effective?

Maybe they are not cures. So what?

I have various conditions which, at least in the current state of modern medicine, cannot be cured. But they can be, and they are being, effectively treated.

(I have no way of knowing how long that will last. Maybe that's why (or part of why) I am such an asshole: I live every minute of every day knowing -- not just in the abstract "I could get struck by lightning" knowing, but in the concrete "that twinge might mean that I have less than an hour left" knowing -- that there are things inside me just itching to kill me, so I tend not to care a whole lot about what strangers think of me.)

If she says, based on her actual experience, that chiropractic treatments are effective in her case or that acupunture is effective in her case, who are you to say otherwise?

[Lord Jim]

The claim that chiropractic treatment is fraud is a stunningly ignorant one...

The body of evidence (no pun intended) for it's efficacy is very well established. This is why nearly all major health insurance providers (and medicare) quite rightly include it in their coverage. (Of course this means less revenue for physicians for more expensive treatments, so if one's objective is to see physicians being able to charge more inflated fees, I can understand why one would not want chiropractic treatment covered)

There are however some frauds who practice chiropractic, people who make claims about it what it can do that are not justified by the scientific evidence...(I met a chiropractor at a party once that claimed they could shrink tumors with it) But of course there are licensed physicians who engage in fraudulent treatments as well.

When practiced by an ethical professional, and used for the established indications, the legitimacy of the effectiveness of chiropractic treatment has been established to the point that it is no longer debatable.