Hpw the debt stacks up (to the moon and back)

[Gob]

(Reuters) - President Ronald Reagan once famously said that a stack of $1,000 bills equivalent to the U.S. government's debt would be about 67 miles high.

That was 1981. Since then, the national debt has climbed to $14.3 trillion. In $1,000 bills, it would now be more than 900 miles tall.

In $1 bills, the pile would reach to the moon and back twice.

The United States hit its legal borrowing limit on Monday, and the Treasury Department has said the U.S. Congress must raise the debt ceiling by August 2 to avoid a default.

The White House is trying to hammer out a deal with lawmakers to cut federal spending in exchange for a debt-limit increase.

Most people have trouble conceptualizing $14.3 trillion.

Stan Collender, a budget expert at Qorvis Communications, said the biggest sum most Americans have ever handled -- in real or play money -- is the $15,140 in the original, standard Monopoly board game.

The United States borrows about 185 times that amount each minute.

Here are some other metrics for understanding the size of the national debt and United States borrowing:

* U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has said the United States borrows about $125 billion per month.

With that amount, the United States could buy each of its more than 300 million residents an Apple Inc iPad.

* In a 31-day month, that means the United States borrows about $4 billion per day.

A stack of dimes equivalent to that amount would wrap all the way around the Earth with change to spare.

* In one hour, the United States borrows about $168 million, more than it paid to buy Alaska in 1867, converted to today's dollars.

In two hours, the United States borrows more than it paid France for present-day Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa and the rest of the land obtained by the 1803 Louisiana Purchase.

* The U.S. government borrows more than $40,000 per second. That's more than the cost of a year's tuition, room and board at many universities.

"That usually gets their attention," Doug Holtz-Eakin, who was chief White House economist under President George W. Bush, said in an email. "I have two kids, so every 10 seconds, the feds borrow more than I paid lifetime."

* The Congressional Budget Office projects the total budget deficit in fiscal 2011 at about $1.4 trillion.

"The net worth of Bill Gates, roughly around $56 billion, could only cover the deficit for 15 days," said Jason Peuquet, a policy analyst with the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. "The net worth of Warren Buffet, roughly around $50 billion, could only cover the deficit for 13 days."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/ ... TL20110519

[rubato]

What Reagan famously said is that the deficit is the biggest problem and then did everything he could to make it as large as possible.


Liar liar.


yrs,
rubato

[oldr_n_wsr]

And todays president is different, how?

[dgs49]

The DEBT is not the issue, it's the DEBT SERVICE that is to be feared.

We never have to "pay back" the money that is borrowed to operate the government, but we do have to pay interest to the folks and countries that buy our bonds. And if they lose confidence the rates will go up - and when the debt is this astronomical, a tiny up-tick in the rate can have disastrous consequences.

Which is why our government ought to be run by adults who understand that even the U.S. fucking federal government ought to be run within its means.

[rubato]

IF we need adults then the Republican party will never supply them. Notice how most of the debt is from BushCo stupdities. Notice how the debt would have gone down if it were not for Republican idiocy and continued to decrease. (as a % of GDP):



yrs,
rubato

[Sean]

I'm sure it's all a big misunderstanding. Quad probably forgot to carry a 7 or something...

[Lord Jim]

The thing that is getting lost in this whole debate about the debt which is focusing on spending cuts and tax increases, is the single most important element:

Economic growth.

If the unemployment rate drops from 9% back to 4.5% then all these deficit projections drop dramatically, (as well as the debt as a percentage of GDP, which is what really matters...not the raw dollar figures)

It would be nice to see both the Congress and the President putting more effort into this aspect of the problem, rather than going back and forth with this cuts versus tax increases class warfare debate. (No conceivable combination of which can have anywhere near the impact that people going back to work will have.)

[dgs49]

The only thing Government can do to promote growth is get the hell out of the way and stop siphoning money out of the economy for programs that are both stupid and unconstitutional. The "stimulus" did little besides keeping lots of superfluous government workers on the payroll, and in the most absurd cases, induced state and local governments to HIRE PEOPLE(!), people for whom we are now supposed to feel sympathy because once the stimulus dried up they have to be let go. This is a Dems' job program for ya.

Most of the morons who post here buy into the preposterous notion that "if only The Rich were paying their fair share, the budget would be OK," failing to recognize that even if the top 10% were paying 100%, the deficits would still be astronomical. Reduce that rate to a conscionable number and the profligate spending becomes even more apparent.

What kind of an idiot would post a graph that based on the presumption that growth and personal income would have remained the same throughout the last decade had the tax rates been much higher? It boggles the mind that someone could be so oblivious to the impact of higher tax rates.

Only a Democrat.

[rubato]

Hey, I know, lets borrow $140,000,000,000 /yr and give it to people making over $250,000/yr! That will fix everything!

Hey, thanks!

You DO know that when you do this you're borrowing from your children to give me something over $10,000/yr, right? right?

yrs,
rubato

[BoSoxGal]

This is where one of the usual suspects is supposed to weigh in to say that rubato must pick lettuce or work at Mickey D's to explain why he believes in progressive taxation.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You DO know that when you do this you're borrowing from your children to give me something over $10,000/yr, right? right?

Are they "giving" you $10,000 a year or just taking $10,000 a year less from you?

While I agree they shouldn't borrow to take less from you, they should get their house in order. If you don't have the money, you can't spend anymore.

[rubato]

You DO know that when you do this you're borrowing from your children to give me something over $10,000/yr, right? right?

Are they "giving" you $10,000 a year or just taking $10,000 a year less from you?

While I agree they shouldn't borrow to take less from you, they should get their house in order. If you don't have the money, you can't spend anymore.

The federal government is BORROWING the money to cut my taxes. Just like BushCo BORROWED hundreds of billions/yr to increase unnecessary spending.

They are BORROWING it from you and your children and you will pay for it in reduced services and a poorer future.

My obligation to my society is proportional to my benefits.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

Is America in denial about the extent of its financial problems, and therefore incapable of dealing with the gravest crisis the country has ever faced?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13906274

[Andrew D]

No!

Not us!

We were placed here specially by God to manifest His Holy Tax-Cutting Truth to the unenlightened world!

Didn't you get the memo?

[rubato]

Is America in denial about the extent of its financial problems, and therefore incapable of dealing with the gravest crisis the country has ever faced?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13906274

Gravest crisis we have ever faced? Hysterical bullshit overstatement.

The Civil War
The great depression.
WWII
WWI
The Jim Crow south.
The McCarthy era.

Were all far greater crises. While the debt is a 'problem' is it not a crisis.



yrs,
rubato

[Sue U]

But if we aren't having a terrible crisis or facing a grave existential threat, how will our leaders save us? And by "save us" I mean "get elected."

[Crackpot]

Our debt isn't a crisis the unwillingness of our leaders to pay on our debts is.

[rubato]

The greatest crisis is that there are enough voters to elect republicans who have for 30 years lied about cutting spending and done the opposite, lied about preferring smaller government and then expanding government by the largest amount, lied about the effect of borrowing (to cut taxes on the rich) on the deficit ... &c.

And then after causing the worst economic disaster in 80 years their own voters are too stupid to ask them "what have you learned that you won't do next time?"

yrs,
rubato

[Long Run]

Is America in denial about the extent of its financial problems, and therefore incapable of dealing with the gravest crisis the country has ever faced?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13906274

Given that the last mid-term election was about getting the financial situation under control, there's is little denial. There is not a consensus on how to deal with the problem, but that will develop. Our way, of course, is to let the car be inches away from the cliff before doing anything, but one can be hopeful that Congress starts turning the car well before then on this topic. Agreed that this is not the "gravest crisis" the U.S. has ever faced -- what kind of silly editor hyperventilates like that?

[Guinevere]

Is America in denial about the extent of its financial problems, and therefore incapable of dealing with the gravest crisis the country has ever faced?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13906274

Given that the last mid-term election was about getting the financial situation under control, there's is little denial. There is not a consensus on how to deal with the problem, but that will develop. Our way, of course, is to let the car be inches away from the cliff before doing anything, but one can be hopeful that Congress starts turning the car well before then on this topic. Agreed that this is not the "gravest crisis" the U.S. has ever faced -- what kind of silly editor hyperventilates like that?

I think the writer was hyperventilating, and the editor failed to offer him a brown bag.....