Hyacinth Bucket lives!!

[Gob]

An acid-tongued email to an 'uncouth' bride-to-be from her future mother-in-law has become an internet sensation.



Heidi Withers, 29, was slated for her 'lack of grace' in the scathing email from Carolyn Bourne, the stepmother of her fiance Freddie Bourne.

The personal assistant was so surprised by the indignant, high moral tone about her poor etiquette that she forwarded it to friends.

In turn, they sent it on and the family feud soon went viral to become the talk of thousands on the internet.

In the email, renowned flower breeder Mrs Bourne, 60, slams Miss Withers for her conduct when visiting the family in Devon in April.

She even describes her future daughter-in-law as 'an ideal candidate for the Ladette to Lady television series'.

She claims that the behaviour of Miss Withers was 'staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace.'

And Mrs Bourne warns her: 'If you want to be accepted by the wider Bourne family, I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste.'

Mrs Bourne, who is married to Freddie's father Edward, began her damning criticism by saying: 'It is high time someone explained to you about good manners. Yours are obvious by their absence and I feel sorry for you.'

She went on: 'Unfortunately for Freddie, he has fallen in love with you and Freddie being Freddie, I gather it is not easy to reason with him or yet encourage him to consider how he might be able to help you.

'It may just be possible to get through to you though. I do hope so. Your behaviour on your visit to Devon during April was staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace.

'Unfortunately, this was not the first example of bad manners I have experienced from you. If you want to be accepted by the wider Bourne family I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste.'

Her cutting email continued: 'There are plenty of finishing schools around.

'You would be an ideal candidate for the Ladette to Lady television series.

'Please, for your own good, for Freddie's sake and for your future involvement with the Bourne family, do something as soon as possible.'

Mrs Bourne, who lives near Dawlish, Devon, and is a renowned breeder of pinks and dianthus flowers, listed a string of examples of Miss Withers's alleged 'lack of manners'.

They began with her eating and sleeping habits, complaining: 'When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something.

'You do not remark that you do not have enough food.

'You do not start before everyone else. You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

'You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why'

'When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms.'

Referring to an ill-advised joke, Mrs Bourne said: 'You should never ever insult the family you are about to join at any time and most definitely not in public.

'I gather you passed this off as a joke but the reaction in the pub was one of shock, not laughter.'

She complained that Miss Withers, a PA for a firm in London's West End, had not sent a hand-written card thanking her for her hospitality.

Mrs Bourne then observed: 'You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.'

She was equally disapproving of the couple's wedding arrangements. She said: 'No-one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity-style behaviour.

'I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved over the years for their daughters' marriages.)

'If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding as befits both your incomes.'

She concluded: 'One could be accused of thinking that Heidi Withers must be patting herself on the back for having caught a most eligible young man. I pity Freddie.'

Web readers were divided in their thoughts on Mrs Bourne's comments.

Some branded her the 'mother-in-law from hell', with one saying: 'The mother-in-law is clearly very badly brought up herself.

'This is a horrible, horrible letter to send to anyone.'

Another defended Mrs Bourne, saying: 'If the bride-to-be really did act as described then she clearly lacks basic manners and I think it's correct for her behaviour to be raised with her.'

And a third speculated on the atmosphere among feuding family members at the actual wedding.

He said: 'I would love to go to the wedding. Normally they are quite boring but this one might be a laugh.'

Caught in the middle, prospective bridegroom Mr Bourne was not taking sides in public.

The 29-year-old, from Putney, south-west London, who runs an online bike shop, simply said: 'I'm not commenting on the matter.'

His father Edward Bourne, 63, said: 'We have nothing to say.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1Qhqg72aQ

[SisterMaryFellatio]

Far out!!

That email should speak volumes to that womans daughter-in-law to be!

IF she still marries him I would be asking him to emmigrate to Australia preferably to the Outback on a property with no phones and the nearest neighbour being 50kms away.

Or

tell her to fuck right off and hopefully she would faint with shock, hit her head on her Louis the XV! chaise and die!!



I have the best Mother-in-law in the world!

[Scooter]

Perhaps the two women should get married and leave the poor groom-to-be in peace, because they appear to be cut from the same cloth. The mother-in-law is a complete bitch for the way in which she chose to cut the bride-to-be to bits (if she really wanted to be helpful, as she claims, there are a lot less humiliating means of providing the same advice). And the daughter-in-law shows that she is as ill-bred as the mother-in-law purports she is, by publishing a private family squabble online.

[The Hen]

If she had any manners, she would have talked to her daughter-in-law-to-be.

Glass houses and stones and all that ....

[Lord Jim]

The 29-year-old, from Putney, south-west London, who runs an online bike shop, simply said: 'I'm not commenting on the matter.'

His father Edward Bourne, 63, said: 'We have nothing to say.'

I'll bet those two have been doing a lot of "having nothing to say" and "not commenting" over the years...

'You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.'

Now there's something some folks I've encountered on discussion boards over the years might find applicable...

[dales]

....or not.

[Gob]

Was she right? Etiquette 101

For any bride (or groom) to-be, one of the most nerve-wracking aspects of entering married life is winning over the future in-laws.

So when one young woman, Heidi Withers, returned from visiting hers in Devon, it's unlikely she welcomed the detailed critique of her manners that dropped into her inbox from her fiance's stepmother, Carolyn Bourne.

Having forwarded the e-mail that described her behaviour as "staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace" to her friends, it then went viral, attracting attention from around the world.

Here are some examples from the missive, followed by some expert opinions.

"When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms."

Staying at someone else's home can be a minefield of dilemmas for many a guest but choosing what time to appear at the breakfast table is one that can be easily cleared up the night before, says etiquette expert Liz Brewer.

"Even when staying at the grandest houses, the hostess will say breakfast is at X o'clock and we'd like you to join us then. If you are very tired, it is acceptable to maybe ask 'would you mind if I have a lie in?'. But that has to be established beforehand.

"When staying with the in-laws you'd have thought you would have wanted to make a good impression."

"No-one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity-style behaviour."

For many couples - and brides in particular - their big day is something they have spent years imagining and planning. With this in mind, it's no surprise that the choice of venue tends to be somewhere special, like a castle.

Andrea Ventress of Wedding magazine says just because you don't happen to live in one doesn't mean you have to rule it out, particularly as more and more stately homes and castles have got wedding licences in the last decade.

"It's a way that a lot of these big places stay open.

"Yes, someone like Madonna got married in a castle but a lot of very normal, real-life couples can get married in these settings. There are lots of castles around the UK where you could absolutely afford to get married. Everyone has the right to a fairytale wedding. "

"You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host."

The suggestion that Miss Withers helped herself to seconds before being offered more by her hostess is seen as a definite no-no. Unless, that is, you are considerate enough to look out for your fellow diners first, says etiquette expert William Hanson.

"If there are communal dishes, and wine, on the table the polite thing to do is turn to the person next to you, offer them some more sprouts, wine or whatever it is and then help yourself."

"I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved for their daughters' marriages.) If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding."

By discussing money Mrs Bourne is mentioning the very British unmentionable. And on the subject of a bride's parents paying for a wedding, it is outdated, says Miranda Eason, editor of You & Your Wedding and Cosmopolitan Bride.

"Our research [21st Century bride online survey 2010] shows that only around 10% of couples rely on their parents for funds. Forty-two per cent of weddings are an all-in-it-together venture with everyone contributing - the couple and both sets of parents. But nearly half (47%) of couples now finance the entire celebration themselves, largely because they are older than when their parents married - the average age for a bride is 29 - and are more financially independent.

"They want to plan the wedding they want without feeling obliged to give into pressure from the parents paying the bills."

"When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something."

In a world full of food awareness and choice, people are increasingly picky about what they eat. But when sitting at someone else's table in their home, Jill Harbord, the headmistress in ITV's Ladette to Lady, says suggesting a dislike for something that has been prepared for you is unacceptable.

"You certainly don't go into the house and say I hate X. That would be very bad manners. If you are allergic to something, you don't say it as you arrive. You should give prior warning before your visit. It's about having respect for your hostess."

"I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste. There are plenty of finishing schools around."

For William Hanson, this was the comment that "tipped it completely over the mark". Mrs Bourne's decision to comment on her future stepdaughter-in-law-to-be's manners is one that could call into question her own manners.

"Whilst she's technically correct on all the points she made she was rude herself handling it in the way she did. She could maybe have gone for the softly, softly approach, or just picked up on a couple of things that particularly bugged her."

Her decision to put her thoughts down in an e-mail could itself be described as a social faux pas. In person, it would have been easier to use tone to lighten the conversation.

"What she needed to do was address this one-to-one, in a friendly tone, not antagonising or dictating to her. She should have given an explanation why.

"Where there is a rule there is always a plausible reason and the reason is normally common sense."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13973331

[The Hen]

I am glad she isn't MY mother-in-law.

I am very fond of my own Welsh Grandy.

[Lord Jim]

I'd like a ruling from Judith Martin....

[Reality Bytes]

In just over 5 weeks time I will be a mother-in-law the in-law etiquette stuff can be a minefield as my hubby is ever so fond of reminding me my very first words ever to my mother-in-law were "fuck off" - I kid you not in my defence I was asleep at the time and she was trying to wake me with a nice cup of tea and I don't "do" mornings until I've had my first ciggy and am fully awake. Luckily for me my dragon-in-law thought it was hilariously funny as did the rest of the family, her cronies, the WI ladies and everyone else she told the story to

My DIL-tb and us had a bit of a rocky start she is unbelievable shy, really painfully so (as are her sisters and her father) when she and Xeno started dating we didn't even know what she looked like for several months as whenever she came over my son would make a point of closing the lounge door and then she'd scuttle in and up the stairs and into his room - the same when she left to go home. Me and Brahms were getting a wee bit peed off with this so I invited her for dinner - only for my son to come down and get her dinner on a tray and take it up to his room after she'd left that evening we laid the law down to Xeno, I was hurt and upset, Brahms was livid and Xeno was defensive. It turned out that it was Xeno who had been "protecting her" because she was so nervous about meeting us - although that made us feel like we were flipping ogres or something - anyway we agreed that all we wanted her to do was stick her head into the lounge when she arrived and just say "hello" and on the way out do the same and say "goodbye" no pressure, just good manners.

We're now at the point where she joins us for meals, suffers through the rugby on Tv and live games, comes to the bootsale with me on a Sunday, initiates conversations and even joins in with the piss taking and tolerates me slagging off the English during every match. She even asked me to join her and her sisters when she went to choose her wedding dress I'm very happy to have her for a DIL and looking forward to it very much.

If my MIL had ever sent me an email or a letter like that one - especially with the stuck up remarks about the brides parents I'd have sent a reply which would not only have confirmed for her what an uncooth ladette I was but would probably have given her a heart attack.

[Andrew D]

"When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms."

Huh?

If you stay overnight at my house, then, absent extraordinary circumstances, you sleep as late as you want.

If I'm up at 6:00, and I'm hungry, I'll make myself some food. And when you get up -- at 7:00 or 9:00 or noon or whatever -- I'll make you some food. If I'm hungry when I serve your food, I'll eat. If I'm not hungry when I serve your food, I'll sit with you, have a cup of coffee and chat.

If I stay overnight at someone else's house, then if that person wants me up at a certain hour, that person wakes me up at that hour.

Not long ago, I stayed the night at the home of a friend with a very busy schedule. He told me that we needed to be up and out at some ungodly (ha, ha; he's a bishop) hour. So when morning came, I woke to the sound of his bright, cheery voice saying "Good morning!" One of my medications tends to make me groggy in the morning, so a couple of minutes later, I woke again to the sound of his bright, cheery voice saying "Good morning!"

I was in his house. Of course I was going to get out of bed at whatever time fit his schedule, even if I would rather have slept several hours more. (I should be so lucky as to get several hours' sleep at a stretch.)

But he woke me up. He expected me to accommodate myself to his schedule, and quite rightly so. But he did not expect me to wake myself up; when he needed me to be awake, he woke me up.

If you are staying overnight at my house, and in the unlikely event that I need you to be up and moving at a particular time, it will be my responsibility to wake you up at that time. I will expect you to arise when I wake you up; I would be rather miffed if you refused to get out of bed in my house when I need you to. But I will not expect you to fill your dreams with anticipation of what time I need you to be out of bed.

I must be missing something. I just don't understand the complaint.

[loCAtek]

Hmmm, now why does that letter sound so familiar?

AnywayZ, I thought posting email messages were a violation of confidentiality/copyright laws?

[Joe Guy]

AnywayZ, I thought posting email messages were a violation of confidentiality/copyright laws?

Making a private email message public may be violating the privacy expected between the two or more people involved but there is no law against it.

And 'copyright laws' have nothing to do with email correspondence. They are for protecting 'original work' not written correspondence between people.

[Sean]

Don't heed her Joe. She's on the downturn in her cycle and is in full-on 'acting the cunt' mode...

[loCAtek]

AnywayZ, I thought posting email messages were a violation of confidentiality/copyright laws?

Making a private email message public may be violating the privacy expected between the two or more people involved but there is no law against it.

And 'copyright laws' have nothing to do with email correspondence. They are for protecting 'original work' not written correspondence between people.

Was reading this and wondered: one could pursue this as a copyright violation, as being the original author of the material.

[Gob]

Which part of;

.
And 'copyright laws' have nothing to do with email correspondence. They are for protecting 'original work' not written correspondence between people.

is too complex for you?

Maybe you should read your own links;

Posting E-mail is technically a violation, but revealing facts from E-mail you got isn't, and for almost all typical E-mail, nobody could wring any damages from you for posting it. The law doesn't do much to protect works with no commercial value.

[Sean]

From the top of the linked article...

Note that this is an essay about copyright myths. It assumes you know at least what copyright is

You should have stopped reading there Lo. Perhaps you did...

[Joe Guy]

Was reading this and wondered: one could pursue this as a copyright violation, as being the original author of the material.

As your linked article stated - copyright is "the legal exclusive right of the author of a creative work to control the copying of that work."

So, unless you are not just communicating with someone and instead are emailing original lyrics, stories, etc. that you've created, the copyright laws would not apply.

And even then it still would probably be difficult to prosecute someone for distributing something you've written in an email unless you had included some type of confidentiality declaration.

[Sean]

Man at centre of mother-in-law email storm runs firm that plans weddings

After his stepmother's email on manners went viral, Freddie Bourne revealed to have surprising new line in business

Given Carolyn Bourne's stinging criticism of her stepson Freddie's forthcoming wedding, it is questionable whether she believes he is the right person to help organise other people's nuptials. So she may be surprised to learn that the entrepreneur, 29, is involved in a company specialising in just that.

Mrs Bourne, for the few who have not heard of her, shot to prominence after an email she sent to Freddie's fiance, Heidi Withers – criticising her "lack of manners" and the couple's plans for their big day – went viral. Overnight Mrs Bourne was transformed into "the mother-in-law from hell" or, as the US press named her, "Momzilla".

But her criticisms now appear to have been given added piquancy given Freddie Bourne's new business venture.

The Observer can disclose that last month Bourne and two twentysomething friends, Alexander Bayliss and Anthony Teale, established Mise-en-Bouche Ltd, a catering and events company in which they are the sole shareholders and which, according to its website, can supply the "wedding of your dreams".

The revelation has raised intriguing questions about whether the online row was orchestrated as a PR stunt, a claim denied by those involved.

Whether Bourne, who is to marry Withers in the autumn at sumptuous Berkeley Castle in Gloucestershire in a reported £18,000 ceremony, will avail himself of the company's services remains to be seen.

Full Story

[loCAtek]

ThX for the answer to my question Joe