You will be A-thei-ssimilated.

[Andrew D]

I don't think that that is Jung's point. I think that Jung's point is, roughly:

(a) that there is something which is the same in the psyche of everyone;

(b) that that something is not directly accessible to ordinary consciousness;

(c) that that something manifests itself in a dizzying array of religious (and other) symbology; and

(d) that by thinking carefully about that symbology -- focusing on commonalities rather than differences -- we can at least begin to understand that otherwise inaccessible something.

[Sean]

Yes



Carl Jung:

Why is psychology the youngest of the empirical sciences? Why have we not long since discovered the unconscious and raised up its treasure-house of eternal images? Simply because we had a religious formula for everything psychic — and one that is far more beautiful and comprehensive than immediate experience. Though the Christian view of the world has paled for many people, the symbolic treasure-rooms of the East are still full of marvels that can nourish for a long time to come the passion for show and new clothes. What is more, these images — be they Christian or Buddhist or what you will — are lovely, mysterious, richly intuitive.

...

Whereas the personal unconscious consists for the most part of "complexes", the content of the collective unconscious is made up essentially of "archetypes". The concept of the archetype, which is an indispensable correlate of the idea of the collective unconscious, indicates the existence of definite forms in the psyche which seem to be present always and everywhere. Mythological research calls them 'motifs'; in the psychology of primitives they correspond to Levy-Bruhl's concept of "representations collectives," and in the field of comparative religion they have been defined by Hubert and Mauss as 'categories of the imagination'... My thesis, then, is as follows: In addition to our immediate consciousness, which is of a thoroughly personal nature and which we believe to be the only empirical psyche (even if we tack on the personal unconscious as an appendix), there exists a second psychic system of a collective, universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals.

...

I think that if you had understood any of what Jung said you wouldn't have posted it.

[Gob]

I think that if you had understood any of what Jung said you wouldn't have posted it.

Kidding right? When has understanding anything she pulls out of her arse to post, ever figured in her attention seeking?

[Sean]

I was trying to be nice...

[thestoat]

That's hilarious; my mother was an atheist and my father an agnostic who mocked religion.

Exactly - indoctrination so deep you have no idea it is there. Always the best form of religious indoctrination, that. Perhaps their attitude made you rebel and become deeply religious because of that. Or perhaps your indoctrination came from elsewhere. These religious types are getting real clever at keeping the faith alive.

[loCAtek]

Okay stoat, I don't know it's there but you do, so: you know me better than I know myself, 'eh?

I'd appreciate it, if you'd tell me- Where did I get my indoctrination if not from an atheist mum and agnostic dad? Pls?

[Sean]

I think Stoat knows you better than you know your own posts. Here's a clue to your indoctrination...

True, I am not a Catholic like the rest of my family, as my mother turned atheist and stopped us going to church when I was very young. If I need a label, I ususally say I'm Buddhist. However, the rest of my extended family still practiced Catholicism, and very devotedly at that. My father's side, followed the tradition that the patriarch was also the family liaison to the gospel. My grandfather on my father's side was regularly asked for blessings for travel and the like because he knew all the benedictions.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2887&p=38702&hilit ... ism#p38702

[thestoat]

Lo, indoctrination can take many forms, and the church is very good at it. You said you went to church when you were very young ... Maybe that. Maybe something someone said touched a Berber without you realising. Maybe you saw something on tv. Maybe others. Maybe a combination. but it does seem that it runs deep within you.

[thestoat]

It has occurred to me that I have missed out a word in my explanation to lo. I thought it was obvious, maybe not so. Thus, along with indoctrination, use the word subliminal.

[Scooter]

There doesn't appear to have been anything subliminal about it, to hear her own account of her upbringing.

[loCAtek]

I was raised from birth in California, my Grandfather and the rest of my extended family lived in New Mexico; whom we only saw once or twice a year.

We never went to Church together. Christmas was rarely the annual time spent together as that was usually the Fourth of July. I've described many times the journey across the Midwest desert to reach them (where in fact, I witnessed a plague of locusts ...Okay, grasshoppers)

If family came to visit us in Cali, we did not go to services. My family did not say grace, nor recite bedtime prayers. My 'catechism' wasn't done by any clergy nor nuns, but by bored housewives, who had us kids color pictures of Jesus in books, while bitching, "How can you be so stupid!?".
Actually, I was so clueless about my traditional Catholicism; I thought 'confession' was like lying to the shopping mall Santa Claus - you always said you'd been good.

At least, that's what I tried to glean, when all my mom would answer angrily to my questions was: "Cause, you're supposed to!!!"

I think that questioning, was why not long after, my family just stopped going to church at all: my parents didn't know, or didn't want to know why one quested after the spiritual.

I think that's why in my early twenties, when I started looking into Eastern Philosophy, my mother glowered and snarled, "You better know what you're getting into!"

...as if she didn't. As if she felt threatened by metaphysical philosophy, and so had rejected it.



I feel no such threat, but am inspired by spirituality to further on.

[Sean]

My 'catechism' wasn't done by any clergy nor nuns, but by bored housewives, who had us kids color pictures of Jesus in books, while bitching, "How can you be so stupid!?".

At least, that's what I tried to glean, when all my mom would answer angrily to my questions was: "Cause, you're supposed to!!!"

And there's your indoctrination right there!

[loCAtek]

Exactly, the dogmatic was pressed whist the spirituality was not.

Yet, somehow I was drawn towards the spiritual side.

[Sean]

Wow! Was that actually a concession that you were indoctrinated?

[loCAtek]

LOL nope, pushing a crayon is hardly an eduction. You, yourself have said my knowledge of Catholicism isn't very wide.

If anything, I received so much negative re-enforcement regarding Christianity, that it got to the point I lost friends in High School because I wouldn't go to Young Life with them. Talk about indoctrination and peer pressure; it doesn't go as far 'Jesus Camp', but the idea is to make faith 'cool' to kids. I'm not knocking it either, it can be very helpful for troubled teens. I just wasn't interested at the time, and those religious friends and I drifted apart.

[loCAtek]

More on this train of thought; it's simply stated, 'Faith begins in the home'.

Meaning the biggest influences on your religious beliefs are your parents. What they teach you, and how they practice their faith is the major factor in how a person chooses a religion.

My parents didn't practice Christianity; they openly disparaged it (When my extended family would call, I would hear my Dad replying, "Yea! Yea! I'm going to church, I'm going to the Church of Satan! Ha-Ha-HA The Knights in Satan's Service HA-HA-HA etc.)

Ergo- I did not grow up to be a Christian. I was not indoctrinated into any Christian faith, or any other one for that matter. I just happen to study spirituality.

[The Hen]

Of course Stoat, some people have such appalling relationships with their immediate family that they will contrarily do something their immediate family wouldn't. They may even chose something that their wider family would approve of just to be accepted.

It would still be indoctrination though. A sort of reverse indoctrination. I would expect that in those cases their actual 'knowledge' would be weak and with many holes.

[loCAtek]

Psycho-babble alert;

Incoming:


Control Freak.

[Scooter]

Referring to your relationship with the bottle again, are you?

[loCAtek]

You didn't click the link did you?


...nothing to do with my incurable disease.