Military wants to suck and blow at the same time

[Scooter]

Isn't the argument against marriage equality supposed to be that lesbians and gay men already have marriage equality because they are free to marry someone of the opposite sex? Then why are three Marines being charged with fraud for marrying persons of the opposite sex?

(Camp Pendleton, Calif.) Military officials are charging three California-based Marine corporals with fraud and larceny for entering in a pair of sham marriages to collect housing funding, officials said.
The military alleges that a lesbian couple – one a Marine, the other a civilian – decided to live together off base and wanted to collect the $1,200 housing benefit granted to married Marines.
The female Marine found a male Marine willing to get married, allowing them to collect the housing benefit, and the civilian woman also eventually married a Marine and collected funds, 1st Lt. Maureen Dooley, a spokeswoman at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego, said Saturday.
The female Marine, Cpl. Ashley Vice, told San Diego’s KGTV-TV that she and her partner, Jaime Murphy, were forced to enter sham marriages because the military doesn’t provide allowances for unmarried couples and they couldn’t afford to live off base without the extra money. She and her partner only wanted to “be a family,” Vice said.
“It doesn’t matter what their sexual preferences are, if they’re violating the law and making fraudulent use of government money, they will be held accountable,” Dooley said.

How are they committing fraud? Their marriages are legally valid, correct? Is the Marine Corp going around with flashlights to determine whether heterosexual couples receiving the housing benefit are sharing a bed or living apart? Of course not, but the military wants to deny benefits to same-sex couples while punishing those who attempt to get around the bigotry by playing within the rules.

[Long Run]

The military apparently does go after hetero abusers of this: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/04/33-char ... s-benefits

This doesn't change the fact that there should be civil union equivalent benefits.

[Scooter]

That's a completely different issue. Marriage used to commit immigration fraud is in and of itself illegal.

[Lord Jim]

Well, if I'm reading this correctly, it looks like there's an additional issue here:

The female Marine found a male Marine willing to get married, allowing them to collect the housing benefit, and the civilian woman also eventually married a Marine and collected funds, 1st Lt. Maureen Dooley, a spokeswoman at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego, said Saturday.

It looks like this arrangement has set them up to get a double entitlement....

Here's a question I don't know the answer to....

In the decision to end "don't ask don't tell" is the military now also recognizing the validity of gay marriages that were performed in states where gay marriage is now legal?

If so, that would seem to solve this problem, and make this kind of surreptitious rule skirting unnecessary.

[Scooter]

There are two married couples and therefore two housing entitlements. I don't imagine that the people they married did it for nothing and therefore also took their share of the benefit.

And no, because of DOMA the military will not be recognizing same-sex marriages.

[liberty]

It is fraud because they claimed a marriage that did not exist. The two women were already married, but not to the persons they claimed. Marriage is not a creation of the state it is instead something that individual do. When two people make a life long commitment to each other they are married whether not the state, federal or any other government recognizes it is another matter. But a marriage exist whether or not it is recognized.

If the women in question had been bisexual and had legitimately married the men and at same time maintained their commitment to each other. They could have all lived in the same house without any fraud being committed. True the UCMJ has articles concerning morals but that is a subject for another discussion.

[Scooter]

Who said the marriages did not exist? They were legally married. The women could not be married to each other because the law said they could not.

You can't have it both ways, as the military wishes to in this case. You can't deny the women the right to a legal marriage and at the same time claim that their marriages to men were illegitimate.

And there are plenty of heterosexual couples in the military who are separated and yet have chosen not to divorce so as not to lose military benefits. If their marriages are not considered a sham, then neither should these.

[Rick]

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/20 ... se-070311/

The female Marine, Cpl. Ashley Vice, told San Diego’s KGTV-TV that she and her partner, Jaime Murphy, were forced to enter sham marriages because the military doesn’t provide allowances for unmarried couples and they couldn’t afford to live off base without the extra money. She and her partner only wanted to “be a family,” Vice said.

Fraud...

[Lord Jim]

You can't deny the women the right to a legal marriage and at the same time claim that their marriages to men were illegitimate.

Well, a case can certainly be made that the way these rules are structured sucks, but that having been said....

If the facts are that these women married these men solely to qualify for the financial allotment, and they don't live with these guys, that certainly looks like they are sham marriages to me....

I guess we don't know what if any financial arrangements they made with these men, (whether the women paid them a lump sum, or if they're kicking back a portion of the money to them, or if these guys simply did it out of friendship)

In my opinion these ladies would be on stronger moral grounds if they hadn't set up two of these deals....

[Scooter]

How is it a fraud?

Was there any legal impediment to the marriages they entered into?

Is there a specific regulation requiring a married couple to live together in order to collect the housing benefit?

In the absence of either of these, where is the "fraud"?

Except for, you know, that sucking and blowing at the same time thing.

[Rick]

Read the post Scooter.

She admitted it was a sham marriage entered into solely for the money.

Now it's up to a tribunal...

[Rick]

Marriage fraud linked to extra Navy housing pay

No different than these...

[Scooter]

In her view the marriage was a sham. It was, nevertheless, perfectly legal. How does that constitute a fraud, unless the miltary applies a litmus test to EVERY marriage to ensure that the couple are actually in love and living as husband and wife. Obviously they don't.

The other cases were already discussed. They involve marriage to commit immigration fraud, which is in itself illegal, and therefore a completely unrelated case.

[Rick]

They also collected BAH fraudulently...

[Scooter]

If the marriages were illegitimate because they were tied to immigration fraud, then the housing benefit was also collected fraudulently.

Is there a regulation that says a husband and wife must be fucking each other in order to qualify for the housing benefit? Somehow I don't think so...

[Rick]

Whatever you think is irrelevant they will probably be charged under article 132 of the UCMJ possibly 121 additionally.

A lawyer may argue yer point, but the military looks down on this sort of thing...

[Scooter]

Yes, I have no doubt that the military looks down on those who are able to use its own regulations against it.

[Lord Jim]

Is there a regulation that says a husband and wife must be fucking each other in order to qualify for the housing benefit?

No, but they may have a requirement that they share the same primary residence....

That would certainly seem logical....

[Rick]

Yes, I have no doubt that the military looks down on those who are able to use its own regulations against it.

I think it's fairly obvious they haven't...

[Scooter]

they may have a requirement that they share the same primary residence....

That would certainly seem logical....

Do you imagine that they would have thought it feasible to go this route if that was a requirement? Obviously it would have been discovered almost immediately that they weren't living together.

Yes, I have no doubt that the military looks down on those who are able to use its own regulations against it.

I think it's fairly obvious they haven't...

Yes, I'm well aware that the military will do anything in power (or even outside of it) to screw servicemembers out of benefits.