The Myth of Religious Wars

[loCAtek]

... outdoing Secular ones.


Most religion spread non-violently, and/or politically;
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

Wars do not make converts, but resistance forces ..or else 9/11 would have worked.

[Scooter]

So, as your own source shows:

Judaism came to Israel through conquest.
Judaism was pretty much expunged from israel through conquest.
Islam expanded through conquest.
Christianity regained some of its lost territories through conquest.

Plus, wars such as the French Wars of Religion, the Thirty Years' War, etc. were also about religion.

[Sean]

You have got to be kidding Lo...

The only point made by anyone was that throughout recorded history there have been warmongers whose prime motivations were religious.

Do you dispute this?

[Scooter]

What she has succeeded in proving is that 3 of the "big five" world religions were spread by miltary conquest.

Guess all that time in the military didn't teach her how to avoid shooting herself in the foot...

[Sean]

They wouldn't give someone with her 'issues' anything more dangerous than a squirt gun surely...

[Scooter]

Guess she walked around with wet shoes a lot then.

[Sean]

That was before she got the squirt gun...

[thestoat]

... outdoing Secular ones.


Most religion spread non-violently, and/or politically;
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

Wars do not make converts, but resistance forces ..or else 9/11 would have worked.

'I saw it on the internet' isn't a very credible claim.

[loCAtek]

~Heh, I'm just getting started, I understand this is going to be a BIG research project. Rather just submitting to a single authoritarian viewpoint about the subject, I'd like to see the facts about the matter first and make any hypothesis later. Forgone conclusions need not apply, quantifiable evidence appreciated.

I'm off to gather some...

[loCAtek]

Very in depth, highly researched, paper by:

RUDOLPH J. RUMMEL, b, 1932, BA and MA from the University of Hawaii (1959, 1961); Ph.D. in Political Science (Northwestern University, 1963); Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Kappa Phi, Omicron Delta Kappa. Taught at Indiana University (1963), Yale (1964-66), University of Hawaii (1966-1995); now Professor Emeritus of Political Science, University of Hawaii. Received numerous grants from NSF, ARPA, and the United States Peace Research Institute. Frequently nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize (see here). Received the Susan Strange Award of the International Studies Association for having intellectually most challenged the field in 1999; the Lifetime Achievement Award 2003 from the Conflict Processes Section, American Political Science Association; and the 2007 The International Association of Genocide Scholars' Award for Distinguished Lifetime Contribution to the Field of Genocide and Democide Studies and Prevention.

...Through his undergraduate term papers, MA Thesis, Ph.D. dissertation, and academic career, R.J. Rummel has focused his research on the causes and conditions of collective violence and war with a view toward helping their resolution or elimination. He published his major results in Understanding Conflict and War, Vols. 1-5 (Sage Publications, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, and 1981). [Written and published, before the inception of the internet]
His conclusion was that "To eliminate war, to restrain violence, to nurture universal peace and justice, is to foster freedom (liberal democracy)."

Have finished this chapter, and will continue reading more later;

UNDERSTANDING CONFLICT
AND WAR: VOL. 4:
WAR, POWER, PEACE
Chapter 16
Causes And Conditions
Of
International Conflict And War*

By R.J. Rummel

Haven't found mention of religion yet.

[Sean]

~Heh, I'm just getting started, I understand this is going to be a BIG research project. Rather just submitting to a single authoritarian viewpoint about the subject, I'd like to see the facts about the matter first and make any hypothesis later. Forgone conclusions need not apply, quantifiable evidence appreciated.

I'm off to gather some...

So you are not leaping to any conclusions until you've thoroughly researched this...

Even though your first words on the subject were "The myth of religious wars outdoing secular ones"?

That's intelligent...

[Scooter]

I'd like to see the facts about the matter first and make any hypothesis later

So when, in your OP, you jumped to the conclusion that "most religions spread non-violently", you were lying.

[Scooter]

Haven't found mention of religion yet.

Becausee you lack the ability to read critically. Do you see the list of causes right at the top of the paper? Do you see the words "sociocultural differences"? Do you so the list of aggravating factors immediately below? Do you see the words "sociocultural dissimilarities"? Perhaps it wouldn't have occurred to your ethanol-soaked brain that religion is one of those "sociocultural differences or dissimilarities".

The author is stating that religion is both a cause AND an aggravating factor for war.

[Gob]

~Heh, I'm just getting started, I understand this is going to be a BIG research project. Rather just submitting to a single authoritarian viewpoint about the subject, I'd like to see the facts about the matter first and make any hypothesis later. Forgone conclusions need not apply, quantifiable evidence appreciated.

I'm off to gather some...

Should read; "I'm going to collect a bunch of disparate shit off the net, selectively quote it, and prove I know fuck all."

[The Hen]

A better way to go would be to research first, then post.

I'm sure Prof Rummell didn't get where he is today by publishing a sweeping statement and then trying to find some facts to back it up.

I have also not seen anyone here say anything about religious wars being more frequent than secular wars.

I have seen international atheists being quoted as saying many wars are religious in nature. I agree with that, many are.

It would be nice to remove those wars. it would also be nice to remove the secular wars too.

[loCAtek]

Do you see the words "sociocultural dissimilarities"? [plural*], Perhaps it wouldn't have occurred to your ethanol-soaked brain that religion is one of those "sociocultural differences or dissimilarities".

Yes, one of, but not the only one.

The author is stating that religion is both a cause AND an aggravating factor for war.

A cause not the only cause. *Pluralism, indicating there are other factors. Pls provide sources showing religion is the only cause.

If atheism is targeting religion as a source of conflict; why aren't they targeting all the other sources of war? Not going to the root of sociocultural dissimilarities, is treating the symptom, not the disease.

[Sean]

For fucks sake...

Nobody here (or anywhere else I'll bet) has ever claimed that ALL wars are caused by religion.

Don't you get that?

[The Hen]

Don't you get that?

Obviously not.

[loCAtek]

Sean can you pick a standpoint and stick to it?

You have got to be kidding Lo...

The only point made by anyone was that throughout recorded history there have been warmongers whose prime motivations were religious.

Do you dispute this?

BTW how many warmongers? Do you have a number?

Was the religious motivation greater than any other motivation, and by how much statistically?

[thestoat]

Lo, your quote does NOT state Sean thinks all wars are caused by religion. Try some logic and critical thinking here