Terrorism comes to Norway.

[loCAtek]

I've also heard of the 'Knights Templar' being revered by white supremacists here in the states. An eye should be kept on them.

The usual nonsense then.

Not paying attention, again are we?

[Sean]

I don't think that you're paying attention...

The only mentions of white supremacy in that article are in the comments section...

[Gob]

I've also heard of the 'Knights Templar' being revered by white supremacists here in the states. An eye should be kept on them.

Who should be kept an eye on Drunkardtec?

An organisation which ceased to exist in the 13 th century, or white supremacists in the USA?

If it's the former, then you're even more fuckwitted than I first thought.

If the latter, do really think they are not having an eye kept on them?

Could you clarify by what you meant by your dumbassed post?

[loCAtek]

here

[Scooter]

Care to quote the words in there that claim "the 'Knights Templar' being revered by white supremacists here in the states"?









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Didn't think so.

Have another drink.

[BoSoxGal]

I have very mixed feelings about the justice system in Norway. Just read this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14311157

One inmate, a former nurse convicted of murdering 22 of his patients, was released after just 12 years incarceration.

I realize they have a low recidivism rate, but less serious crimes than murder surely comprise the majority of the population of incarcerated.

Is it really right that somebody who took 22 lives should serve only 12 years in prison?

What do you think?

[Scooter]

Norway invests a huge amount of resources into rehabilitation. When they let people out, it is with sufficient tools that it makes it unlikely that they will go on committing crimes. We can always ask "what level of punishment is enough", but from a practical standpoint, if it is enough (a) to provide a sufficient deterrent to committing crime in the first place, and (b) to minimize the chance of recidivism, then what more can anyone realistically want? Punishment in excess of what is necessary to achieve (a) and (b) amounts to revenge.

[loCAtek]

Wow, hard to believe this isn't Photoshopped as a joke, but his real FaceBook page;


...all kinds of mixed up equipment:

a scope with [two] flashlights;

wet suit (civilian issue) with hydration pack;

bayonet with sighting stand

Black nylon police web-belt with Very outdated leather sling

Sling? on a bayonet-fitted, standing rifle? WTF?


Oh BTW;

The hypothesis that keeps coming back is that after the Ku Klux Klan lost its mass appeal in the 1930's, it went underground and infiltrated and mated with Freemasonry. The Klan was very emphatic that it was a Christian organization, hence the burning cross. Its white hooded robes were said to imitate the Knights Templars, its secret handshakes and oaths - Freemasonry. It was also billed as a fraternal organization, one which advocated white supremacy, opposed gay rights and was anti Semitic, anti Catholic and anti immigrant. So the KKK was Christian and fraternal and used to secrecy.

Source

[Scooter]

So when you claimed this was a source for the claim that the Knights Templar are revered by white supremacists in the U.S., you were lying. Thanks for admitting it.

Oh BTW -
Knights Templar - Catholic organization
KKK - anti-Catholic

Not particularly suited to fostering "reverence".

But do keep trying, it's fun to watch you keep sticking your foot in your mouth.

P.S. And if appropriating a symbol is evidence of reverence, then I guess that means the Nazis revered Buddhists and Hindus, since they took on the swastika as their emblem.

What say you, loCA, was Hitler a Buddhist?

[loCAtek]

I'll take your response in the form of a question;

Was this a source for the claim that the Knights Templar are revered by white supremacists in the U.S.?.

Pues si, this;

The manifesto begins with an entry for April/May 2002, in which the author claims to have been "ordinated as the 8th Justiciar Knight for the PCCTS, Knights Templar Europe" - the "resistance movement"

Resistance to whom? Well, I have to tell you, I've been in contact with a White Racist, who used to be in my Seabee unit (see: Reboot); lately he's been signing his emals with;

Sigillum Militum Xpisti.

Co-incidence?


The 'White Knights of Mississippi'; the 'White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan' OR The 'Knights of the Golden Circle', 'Order of American Knights' etc. still exist today as;

Seneschal W. Percy Edwards, Past Grand Commander
Marshal Wallace M. Gage, Past Grand Commander
Prelate Gordon J. Brenner, Past Grand Commander
Sentinel Robert W. Gibson, Hon. Past Grand Commander

The Charter class of 139 included 86 from New Jersey, 8 from Connecticut, 5 from the District of Columbia, 8 from Massachusetts and Rhode Island, 5 from New York, 3 from Pennsylvania, 7 from Virginia, 2 from Vermont, 5 from Maine, 8 from Maryland, 1 from Alabama, and 1 from Arkansas. The class Exemplar was Sir Knight Kenneth Culver Johnson, Right Eminent Grand Generalissimo of the Grand Encampment or Knights Templar of the U.S.A. Also in the class was Sir Knight John B. Cottrell, Right Eminent Deputy Grand Master. Ironically, Sir Knight Cottrell died two months later and within weeks Sir Knight Johnson suffered a severe stroke.

Over the years, Charters were issued to the following states: Maine, Virginia (1984), Pennsylvania, New York, Kentucky (1985), Texas (August 15, 1994), California (April 29, 2000), and Maryland, bringing our total number of Chapters to 9. I am in correspondence with Tennessee relative to issuing them a Charter.

I have served for over a quarter of a century as Sovereign Grand Preceptor of the Grand Chapter of the Sovereign Order of Knights Preceptor.

Since July 9, 2003, when this history was written, Charters have been issued to: Sovereign Grand Preceptors Chapter on March 27, 2004; Idaho Chapter on October 14, 2004; and the Charter of California Chapter was withdrawn on April 12, 2005; bringing the total number of Chapters to 10.

You may ask, 'Are they racist?'

Well, they were both founded by Alpert Pike- and that's too close for comfort, IMHO.

[Scooter]

The manfesto makes reference to the "Knights Templar Europe" and therefore does not demonstrate any link whatsoever with white supremacists in the United States.

The Sovereign Order of Knights Preceptor is an order of freemasonry, not a branch of the KKK, and therefore has nothing to do with white supremacists, although I am sure that there are white supremacists who happen to be masons, just as there are white supremacists who happen to be Catholics, stamp collectors and dentists. One has nothing to do with the other.

[rubato]

By chance we were in Bergen Norway the day after the shootings. A pair of women in what looked like modified Islamic clothing with complexions to match stopped us and gave us flyers for an anti-racist rally to happen the next day. (There is enough Norse in English that you could make out that much with a little interpolation.)

I've seen nothing to suggest that this was anything but a Ted Kazcinski - lone sociopath.

yrs,
rubato

[loCAtek]

P.S. And if appropriating a symbol is evidence of reverence, then I guess that means the Nazis revered Buddhists and Hindus, since they took on the swastika as their emblem.

What say you, loCA, was Hitler a Buddhist?

Actually, Hitler took the swastika symbol from the Romans, he greatly admired their culture.




Buddhists however, think Hitler doomed himself by doing that since the arms of the Nazi hakenkreuz,swastika are turned the wrong way;




The Hindu swastika faces in the same way, but includes the dots;




FWIW - The Nazi salute is based on a Roman commoner's way of greeting.

[dgs49]

bigskygal:

My studies in penology led me to the conclusion that for serious felonies (to be defined), there ought to be two general options: (1) five years or less, or (2) life without parole. If a person CAN be rehabilitated, it will happen in five years or less - if they CAN'T, then they can't and let's be done with them. A 25-year sentence is absurd. And of course we have no real death penalty in the U.S., so I'd just forget that option.

Recidivism rates must considered in cultural context. Norway boasts low recidivism, and (for example) Minnesota's is quite a bit higher. But for Minnesotans of Norweigan extraction I suspect they are about the same. And as Norway gets more and more foreigners coming to live there, their recidivism rates will creep up.

As for the nurse who killed 22 patients, those were crimes of opportunity, and not typical of serial killers. I doubt he is a danger to Norweigan society now. I wonder if he is available for day work. I have a couple elderly relatives in need of care.

[Liberty1]

The hypothesis that keeps coming back is that after the Ku Klux Klan lost its mass appeal in the 1930's, it went underground and infiltrated and mated with Freemasonry. The Klan was very emphatic that it was a Christian organization, hence the burning cross. Its white hooded robes were said to imitate the Knights Templars, its secret handshakes and oaths - Freemasonry. It was also billed as a fraternal organization, one which advocated white supremacy, opposed gay rights and was anti Semitic, anti Catholic and anti immigrant. So the KKK was Christian and fraternal and used to secrecy.

This is totally wrong about Masons, My dad was a Master Mason. According to him, the Masonic fraternity is non-religious, but you are required to believe in a supreme being. He said anyone of any faith was allowed as long as that faith were monotheistic.

[Liberty1]

And as far as the KKK, just so everyone knows.

History shows that the Ku Klux Klan was the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party. This ugly fact about the Democrat Party is detailed in the book, A Short History of Reconstruction, (Harper & Row Publishers, Inc., 1990) by Dr. Eric Foner, the renown liberal historian who is the DeWitt Clinton Professor of History at Columbia University. As a further testament to his impeccable credentials, Professor Foner is only the second person to serve as president of the three major professional organizations: the Organization of American Historians, American Historical Association, and Society of American Historians.
Democrats in the last century did not hide their connections to the Ku Klux Klan. Georgia-born Democrat Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan wrote on page 21 of the September 1928 edition of the Klan’s “The Kourier Magazine”: “I have never voted for any man who was not a regular Democrat. My father … never voted for any man who was not a Democrat. My grandfather was …the head of the Ku Klux Klan in reconstruction days…. My great-grandfather was a life-long Democrat…. My great-great-grandfather was…one of the founders of the Democratic party.”

Dr. Foner in his book explores the history of the origins of Ku Klux Klan and provides a chilling account of the atrocities committed by Democrats against Republicans, black and white.

On page 146 of his book, Professor Foner wrote: “Founded in 1866 as a Tennessee social club, the Ku Klux Klan spread into nearly every Southern state, launching a ‘reign of terror‘ against Republican leaders black and white.” Page 184 of his book contains the definitive statements: “In effect, the Klan was a military force serving the interests of the Democratic party, the planter class, and all those who desired the restoration of white supremacy. It aimed to destroy the Republican party’s infrastructure, undermine the Reconstruction state, reestablish control of the black labor force, and restore racial subordination in every aspect of Southern life.”

Heartbreaking are Professor Foner’s recitations of the horrific acts of terror inflicted by Democrats on black and white Republicans. Recounted on pages 184-185 of his book is one such act of terror: “Jack Dupree, a victim of a particularly brutal murder in Monroe County, Mississippi - assailants cut his throat and disemboweled him, all within sight of his wife, who had just given birth to twins - was ‘president of a republican club‘ and known as a man who ‘would speak his mind.’”

“White gangs roamed New Orleans, intimidating blacks and breaking up Republican meetings,“ wrote Dr. Foner on page 146 of his book. On page 186, he wrote: “An even more extensive ‘reign of terror’ engulfed Jackson, a plantation county in Florida’s panhandle. ‘That is where Satan has his seat,‘ remarked a black clergyman; all told over 150 persons were killed, among them black leaders and Jewish merchant Samuel Fleischman, resented for his Republican views and for dealing fairly with black customers.“

[dgs49]

Catholics have traditionally been forbidden from becoming Freemasons. The Knights of Columbus were formed, at least to some extent, to give Catholic men a forum for similar kinds of community-benefit activities, in the context of a "secret" fraternal organization.

[Scooter]

Actually, Hitler took the swastika symbol from the Romans, he greatly admired their culture.

That particular floor is in Tunisia; when do you imagine Hitler went to see it?

Yes, swastikas appear (rarely singly, usually in rows as a border) in Roman tile work. But it's a big leap from that to Hitler seeing it as some sort of symbol of the glory of Rome. Even if he did, he didn't believe Romans or Greeks to be part of the Aryan race. He admired their accomplishments, sure, but to use a symbol of a mongrel race as the emblem of the Nazi state? Hogwash.

If you've read anything on the Nazi belief in the Aryan master race, you would know that those who subscribed to that nonsense believed the swastika to have originated in northern Europe and then brought to Iran and India and from there to the rest of the world, by the migrations of the ancient Aryans. He believed it to be an Aryan symbol and so he appropriated it. But that doesn't mean he was looking to become a Hindu or a Buddhist. Same thing applies to the Klan. Just because they put a cross on the front of their hooded sheets doesn't mean they have "reverence" for a completely unrelated ancient organization that also happens to use a cross as a symbol.

FWIW - The Nazi salute is based on a Roman commoner's way of greeting.

That is a myth that was born out of Mussolini's adoption of the salute out of the mistaken belief that it was a custom of ancient Rome, which it was not:

The salute gesture is widely believed to be based on an ancient Roman custom. However, no Roman work of art depicts it, nor does any Roman text describe it. Jacques-Louis David's painting Oath of the Horatii (1784) seems to be the starting point for the gesture that became known as the Roman Salute. The gesture and its identification with ancient Rome was advanced in other French neoclassic art. This was further elaborated upon in popular culture during the late 19th and early 20th centuries in plays and films that portrayed the salute as an ancient Roman custom. This included the silent film Cabiria (1914), whose screenplay was written by the Italian ultra-nationalist Gabriele d'Annunzio, arguably the forerunner of Benito Mussolini. In 1919, when he led the occupation of Rijeka, d'Annunzio adopted the style of salute depicted in the film as a neo-Imperialist ritual; and it was quickly adopted by the Italian Fascist Party.

Hitler himself denied that the Nazi salute was any sort of attempt to imitate Ancient Rome:

I made it the salute of the Party long after the Duce had adopted it. I'd read the description of the sitting of the Diet of Worms, in the course of which Luther was greeted with the German salute. It was to show him that he was not being confronted with arms, but with peaceful intentions. In the days of Frederick the Great, people still saluted with their hats, with pompous gestures. In the Middle Ages the serfs humbly doffed their bonnets, whilst the noblemen gave the German salute. It was in the Ratskeller at Bremen, about the year 1921, that I first saw this style of salute. It must be regarded as a survival of an ancient custom, which originally signified: "See, I have no weapon in my hand!" I introduced the salute into the Party at our first meeting in Weimar. The SS at once gave it a soldierly style. It's from that moment that our opponents honored us with the epithet "dogs of Fascists".

From Hitler's Table Talk

[rubato]

I still see no evidence that he is anything other than a deranged individual. If so, he simply represents a level of risk which we will have to bear.

yrs,
rubato

[loCAtek]

Actually, Hitler took the swastika symbol from the Romans, he greatly admired their culture.

That particular floor is in Tunisia; when do you imagine Hitler went to see it?

Well, there are other examples of which I've witnessed personally, if you care to believe that. I've visited the Roman ruins in West Germany (when there was an east and west) that displayed the swastika, and my West German friend affirmed they inspired Adolf Hitler and his third reich.

But that doesn't mean he was looking to become a Hindu or a Buddhist

Thank you.